To think children are more immature now

[lesley33]

I am surprised all the time about how immature some children and teenagers are and how little some can do for themselves. AIBU in thinking this is because children/teenagers are so often over protected these days and so naturally take longer to grow up?

I totally agree with curly and Riven. My British friends are always surprised that i take my dcs to funerals or that i talk to them about things like death and war. Imo some people go too far about making sure that their dcs never get exposed to the News, or illness/disability/divorce, never see any adult crying anything stressful really ever.

I agree that children are not necessarily more immature, but they are certainly more mollycoddled.

At age 11, I was still happily playing with my barbies and baby dolls. This was my first year of secondary school. My friends played with them too. My (almost) 8 year old daughter wouldn't play with them. Yet at the same time, I was allowed to play in the street from age 4, go to the park / shops whilst in juniors and walked home from school alone when in year 5 (this involved a 10 minute walk and crossing two main roads). By the age of 10, I was allowed to catch the bus into town and meet my friends. By the time I went to secondary school, my mum went back to work and during the school holidays I was expected to look after myself all day every day.

I believe in giving my children this sort of childhood. I am (and have always been) fiercely independent, and love my freedom. I want my children to do that too. Yet some of the comments I have had from other parents sometimes make me sound positively neglectful. Here are just a couple of examples...

• My (almost 8) year old daughter is able to make herself a cup of tea / coffee and often brings us breakfast in bed at the weekend (bless her!) I said this to another mum with a child the same age and she replied that she would not let her child use a kettle in case she burnt herself. She then went on to say that she wouldn't even let the child play downstairs whilst she had a lie in, incase the 7 year old child wandered off. I didn't like to admit that I expect my four year old (almost 5) to get up, make her own breakfast (cereal) and play until we get up

• My DD had a friend over to play and they wanted to go to the swings, on our estate (about 2 mins walk, on the next road to ours with no main roads to cross - small market town so very safe). I asked the mother of this child if they could go (the child is 9 going on 10) and the mum wasn't happy. I had to take them to the swings.

I think there are a lot of reasons for it though.

Culturally things have changed, children are expected to be protected so much more. My daughter is in year 3, and I would like her to walk out of school alone to meet me at the end of the path leading to her school, but the school won't allow it, they insist a parent has got to come to the school to collect them.

I agree that the litigious culture means that people take less risks.

I think there are more expectations on parents, and more nannying from the state - for example, the NSPCC now say children shouldn't be allowed to play in the street before the age of 7/8, and not left in the house alone until the age of 12. Hell, by that age I had been playing out in the street for 4 years, and was looking after myself all day, every day of the holidays! I also had a part time job from 14, earning my own money. You don't see that any more.

Then there's parental paranoia. People keep telling me that 'things have changed' and 'its not as safe anymore'. I'm not that convinced that so much has actually changed. Yes there are more cars about, but that is all.

Hmmm, that went on a bit. Sorry

The thing I don't understand is why ovens or boiling water should have become "different" or "less safe" than they were? Does water boil at a higher temperature these days? Seems to be an axiom of faith these days that you can't let a child put a cake in the oven until they are almost old enough to claim unemployment benefit.

No that's the refusal to see that life brings good timea but also hard times. We've been conditioned to ask and want only the good and reject the bds.

So before you would have accepted that sometimes children get hurt. That accident can happen and it's no one's fault.
Now, parents need to ensure that their dcs is as protected as possible because bad times arent' allowed to happen and if they are then it is some one's fault (in that case, usually the parents. Youcan see the guilt trip coming there).

Cory, agreed. I remember getting my housekeeper's (??) badge in the Brownies at aged 7, and that involved having to make someone a cup of tea and cake. At 8, we were all taken to the phonebox so we could learn how to phone home when playing out. It was expected that we would do these things then, but it seems almost forbidden now!

My 12 year old ds irons his own clothes, makes his packed lunches, cleans his room, gets the bus to school and into town, clears the table and washes up and also fixes breakfast and lunch for ds2 who is six

My friend was on holiday abroad with her friends when I 16 year old son rang her up screaming because she hadnt left the right school tie out and that he couldnt find it!! 16? I remember getting myself up and blowdrying my hair at 12 before I either cycled to school or took my siblings on the bus.

My niece has been taking the dog out for a walk before school since she was eight. Thats the deal when she wanted a dog. She has been going to the corner shop since about then too. My seven year old niece can go to the coffee shop counter, order me a cappuccino and carry it back without spilling it I have her well trained What they dont do though is sleepovers at friends houses. That, I find has changed.

I think to call it 'immature' is one way of looking at it. Badly behaved or plain lazy or undisciplined is another way of looking at it. I think part of it is parents not having enough time/energy to look after their children and teach them life skills. Part of it may be due to some parents simply not caring resulting in very badly behaved and disruptive kids. I find it staggering how a significant proportion of very young children behave in school but also museums/theme parks/shops etc. It may be so that this is something people have been saying for generations but I truly believe there are many more poorly behaved, lazy, immature or whatever you want to call it, children and young people nowadays. And they know that they get away with it. Teachers are ill equipped to deal with them due to large class sizes and parents are either too tired or can't care less.

The majority of dd's friends weren't badly behaved, far from it. They just weren't allowed to boil a kettle or walk to the shops or use the sharp knives. And because they were such nicely behaved children they stuck to the rules. And consequently appear rather clueless.

I am puzzled Cory. If they were well behaved nice kids why did their parents not let them? Don't they prepare breakfast/lunch/dinner together (if not during the week then at least during the weekend)?

Well I don't know. Ours are 13 and nearly 17. DS (nearly 17) is pretty sensible, DD is also. DS has come home on the public bus since he was 10, DD went to school on the tube for two years. They are both capable of buying tickets and working out a journey and this summer they went to Zurich on their own admittedly dropped at LHR and collected at the other end.

For the last couple of years they have let themselves in after school and are capable of making an omolette or bunging a ready meal in the microwave to keep them going until I get home. Both pretty responsible about homework and bag packing/kit etc. DS has also got himself to Padstow on his own. They are not terribly domesticated but they are capable and know the difference between clean and tidy and otherwise. DD forgot her keys once last year and found her way to my office and a very shy girl asked reception to call me, etc., and I was quite proud at the initiative she used.

They exelled themselves only this week. DS went for a run, DD heard thump, crash and smash. DD texted DS who came straight back and phoned me at work. I rushed home - DS had stopped DD being scared and had cleared up all the glass. Bird had flown into a window at the back!! Was very proud of them both actually.

dikkertjedap Sat 01-Oct-11 22:40:17
"I am puzzled Cory. If they were well behaved nice kids why did their parents not let them? Don't they prepare breakfast/lunch/dinner together (if not during the week then at least during the weekend)?"

I am talking about getting some independence. Being allowed to make yourself a cup of tea when you're 10 years old without mummy hovering over you. Or walk down to the nearest shops when you're almost old enough for secondary school. Or cut yourself a slice of bread.

No doubt it's because the parents are so terrified of anything happening to their lovely children, "how could I ever forgive myself?". And the children were so nice that it didn't occur to to challenge their parents or even disobey.

What they don't realise is that you will love that child just as much when they are 16/17/18, and sooner or later they will have to become independent.

I think the maturity has changed in where it lies. Doing things and taking responsibility - definately no. But being able to cope with demands of school and social demands, technology, complex themes (just look at kids TV programmes - they have story arcs fgs, never had anything that advanced when I was a kid).

But yes, there are waaaay too many useless types who can't even put a washing on. I think it says more about the parents though than the kids. Not able to let go of their baybeees, and often being martyrs to their every need (I know a 5 year old like that!)

I think they will -eventually- most learn how to fry an egg or put the washing machine on.
I'm not sure about taking decisions, solving problems, dealing with dissapointment, conflict, unexpected situations. Look how some parents plan every detail, from which subject the children will study to which book they will read at the airport - i.e. 5 months before they go to holidays they make lists for the sticker books, endless snacks and toys in case the 6yo gets one minute bored/hungry/thirsty.

I also think some parents are over the top about not discussing anything in front of the children. I'm not saying they should witness blazing rows every day but it is ok imo to overhear a disagreement, or a discussion about the News, or about an accident. I don't agree that we must hide everything from them and only talk about them when they are awake, and talk about everything else only after they go to bed.

Yep, and its all the parents faults. My dn cannot cut his food up at 12.

Cos nanny and mummy do it cos hes the ickle babeey who cannot possibley be allowed to lift a finger.

And he has only just learnt shoelaces.

Glad I wont be his future dp/dw.

though to be fair, my ds can't do shoelaces either despite having been left in all sorts of unsuitable situations and drilled for years (dodgy joints and a brain full of fluff)

then again, I'm not good with shoelaces myself despite having grown up in the sixties, free to roam the woods (dodgy joints and a brain full of fluff?)

Oh god thank you op for this thread

My dd went to his church group yesterday on his own taking two buses after he asked if he could go into town to pick up the books he had reserved from the library to which I agreed just as he was about to leave I got a call from one of the mums asking if I was sure it was ok for dd to go along into town

He is bloody 11 for gods sake she explained she had a 14 year old who has never been to town on their own so was worried

Dear lord children are so wrapped up in cotton wool these they are given to much rights and too little responcebilty

I bolk at threads Pondering weather their 19 should be paying rent and helping around the house

Or wether they were right to punish their 6 year old for swearing at them gurr

I think I may have done more outdoors stuff completely unsupervised - at 8 I used to be put on a train and my mother used to give the steward a clinking amount to keep an eye on me and my grandmother used to meet me, with a platform ticket, at Victoria, and with friends I spent hours out on bikes and jumping into the sea without supervision and lying on haystacks, etc., but nobody worried about traffic or paedophiles or drugs or under age sex. It all must have happened but it wasn't as high profile. Also, nobody expected me to go to university (I was top average and have an MBA and professional quals now) so I was taught to arrange flowers and to cook and to look pretty and to look graceful and to be well mannered and gracious. It was just a different era but rather like my own children I was never taught to clean or to clear up after myself much. That, although it is embarrassing to admit it, was always done by others - it still is now. But I was used to living in a well kept and an immaculate house and have always done so and have never had any difficulties doing it myself when I have had to and have been considerably more disciplined that flat mates, etc., who ultimately came from less privileged homes and you would have thought should have known better.

I hope my children will be the same - they live in an ordered and tidy home and will want to do so themselves later on. The SILs, however, were brought up much more women's libby and both went to RG university (never had proper jobs though) and live in absolute filth because they were reared to think that women shouldn't have to do that sort of stuff and had a mother who thought she was too intellectual to do it. That's a bit of a stream of consciousness I know but it sets out how I've found things.

Our DC are London children and although they have a fairly easy life in many ways I think they are pretty street wise and pretty sensible and I think they would survive pretty well if we left them on their on for a week with £50.00. On the other hand they have to manage their time in relation to school work far more than I ever did, they have more pressures in relation to being cool and doing the right thing, and are exposed to many many more life and life style choices than I could have imagined as a teenager. I don't think I would swap my teenage years with theirs although we have done our best to make sure they have a proper childhood and aren't stuffed full of silly media stuff.

where were you when I asked a question about leaving my 12 yr old home alone whilst I'm at work a few months ago? It's a part time job up the road, so only a few hours a day and the holiday club only take children up to and including their twelfth birthday. I asked if it was OK to leave a child of this age on their own in the house (in the daytime) for about 5 hours and most people agreed that she's too young to be home alone at the age of 12. (when I was 11, I looked after my 9 and 7 yr old sisters from 6-midnight every night whilst my Mum worked).. my friend wont leave her 14 year old daughter home alone for half an hour whilst she takes her other child to ballet- she drags the 14 yr old everywhere. It does become a vicious cycle. I'm loathe to do anything my friends or neighbours might spot and judge me on, so I play way too safe most of the time.

I'd have said fine too. DD at just 13 did about three weeks on her own at the end of this summer when DS was away or back at school and she point blank refused to go to Grandma's! Depends on the child, the neighbours and how fast you can get home.

Not completely alone of course. I just went to work at 9ish and got home at 5.30ish. She sometimes had a friend (yes two 13 year olds on their own) or went to a friends or to the cinema with a friend and sometimes got to the bus to my office and we had lunch together! Dons hard hat ready for flaming.

My DC are 13 and 17 - If I get home late I know the cats,dogs,chickens etc will be fed and that my DC will have made some dinner etc.
They cycled to school in year 5 and 6 - alone -gasp !
Also got the bus to school -from year 7 onwards.

I think most of the SAHM of teenagers keep their kids immature so as to secure their own role-my SAHM friends drive their DC everywhere
Its not in their best interests really.

Melissad, I must have been on holiday then: you'd have had my supporting voice too. Don't know a single 12yo round here who goes to a childminder.