To think children are more immature now

[lesley33]

I am surprised all the time about how immature some children and teenagers are and how little some can do for themselves. AIBU in thinking this is because children/teenagers are so often over protected these days and so naturally take longer to grow up?

I think kids I know now are more streetwise but less mature in other ways than I was growing up.

As a teenager we spent loads of time keeping a low profile in the corner of a pub (learning to drink in an adult fashion and act like adults). We hung out with teachers and no-one called the teachers perverts even when relationships happened. You could get jobs which now don't allow under-16s, eg in supermarkets.
But also we didn't have stuff hidden from us - I don't remember not knowing about the Holocaust and those images of starving camp inmates, we got told graphic details of child abuse by the NSPCC when I was 7 (I still think that one was a mistake, though), we knew about death and the War and it was all talked about a lot. And housework and fewer washing machines, fridges, dishwashers meant we needed to chip in, even if that was just going with Dad to the laundrette or running errands to the shop, or helping peel veg for dinner, because parents were busy doing other stuff!

I can't believe the posts I see here and elsewhere with parents complaining that primary is too young to read/hear stories about death!

Every generation think the next generation is lazy, immoral, immature...

C'est la vie.

It's weird. In some ways they are older- all the concerns about pre-sexualisation of children etc- but in many ways I agree that they are younger for their age than previous generations. However, much of this is due to economic circumstances.

• very few people now start FT employment at 16
• people stay at home longer because they cant afford to move out
• It's more expensive to learn to drive/get a car

I take on board the fact that every generation says this, but to an extent it's true. My uncle was working FT at 15, moved out at 17, had his own business at 19. My Gran started working FT at 14.

notcitrus, agree with all of your post!

Although I know it's not a new thing, I guess it's happening more often; DH's parents were vvvv.mollycoddling with DH (35) & his younger brother (31/32); they were never allowed to do contact sports, FIL would never play aeroplanes or throw them up & down, never allowed to watch films with swear words in, didn't do any chores!
They've both turned out decently, but PIL constantly express regret regarding the way they've raised them, as it took them a lot longer to develop common sense/become streetwise.

The only helicopter parents I know are the ones who have been raising families a lot older (those who don't have their first until 35+), not generalising for all older parents (just the ones I know)..but I guess they feel they 'know' better?

"Every generation think the next generation is lazy, immoral, immature..."

I know thats true. But I do think children have a lot less responsibility now and thus find it harder to cope with basic life skills.

For example, when I was a teenager in the 80's, lots started their first full time job at 16. Everyone I knew travelled to the interview alone and dealt with getting to their first day at work alone. Now some parents won't let their 15 or 16 year olds travel alone anywhere.

"- very few people now start FT employment at 16

• people stay at home longer because they cant afford to move out
• It's more expensive to learn to drive/get a car"

I think the first point is true, but I think the other points are examples of how teenagers/young adults are infantilised. I didn't know anyone my age who had a car until I went to Uni and met some rich students. But like my friends I got buses and walked without my parents from a young age.

It was difficult to afford somewhere when I was young. But we didn't expect to move from my parents house to renting or buying a house. Again I and my friends lived in shared houses or bedsits.

My teenage stepsons are lovely bright boys but are quite mollycoddled. DH complained for years about the endless lifts but I really had to push him to make them get a bus occasionally. (Which they managed with fine when they had to). Of course then it turns into "they are 17 they need a car" argh! They can still get a bus! or a part time job and help pay for their own car! (Some of this of course will be divorced-parent guilt but I see with our little DS that he is also very protective).

DSS1 had a bit of a learning curve just before/at uni but to his credit has learnt to cook etc and is v appreciative now of what everyone did for him in the past. So they can do it, they just seem to do it a lot later than we did. Most of the DSSs' friends seem lovely (though one or two are clearly very spoiled) they just don't seem to have responsibilities at a young age.

A friend of mine works with young graduates and is stunned by how little they can do for themselves, how much they expect in terms of respect, and how little they understand about office/business behaviour (timekeeping, dress, using the internet in office hours etc).

Having said that, although I grew up in the 70s my mum was ill for much of my childhood so I had to do much more for myself and around the house, which means I don't really have any idea what normal was even then in terms of independence. I do remember at university in the early 90s being very dismissive of other freshers' angst at being separated from their parents and how much help they got (mums coming down to put up lace curtains in their halls of residence rooms etc...) Not very nice of me I know but after years of being self-sufficient when I didn't always want to be, I was probably just jealous! I still do it now but then I do love a whinge about the youth of today.

Public transport used to be much better than it is now, certainly in rural areas. I grew up rurally in EA in the 90s and unless your parents coughed up for you to learn how to drive you had no chance at getting a job or going anywhere really without your parents. There are quite major problems with rural poverty in similar areas for these reasons.

I don't agree, as the statement is too general IMO. Some children might be, some children aren't.

I was extremely independent, so were most of my friends, including ones who appeared 'coddled' on the outside had absolutely no problems leaving home and living independently or getting jobs.

The trouble is that, if you attempt to give your child a similar experience as you had growing up in the 80's you'll get raised eyebrows and sarky remarks... When I told a friend that I'd sent my 8yo DS ou to buy a loaf of bread solo (means crossing a few busy roads with traffic lights etc) there was a definitely judgy nip in the air. :) If not having infantilised young adults is important, you have to get on with creating them and develop a very thick skin.

I've banged on about this on here before but it amazes me when I read threads about 20/21 men who are being excused all sorts of behaviour because they're only young. it's pathetic. My dad was married and had me by that age. Why do parents feel the need to baby their grown up children ffs?

cogito I was thinking that when reading the kids on pavements thread the other day. DD often runs off and I have to leg it after her, that's because she's 2 and I'm in the process of teaching her road safety/to stop when I say so. She is not remotely perfect at it yet, but I don't know how else I am supposed to teach her if I don't give her a bit of freedom ah well.

Cogito - I know thats true. I am not saying it is easy to do. But it would help if parents at least let their younger teenagers build up their skills.

I feel pretty sorry actually for young adults away from home e.g. at university and having to learn to do a lot of new things for themselves. When I went to Uni I had to adjust to living away from home, but I was perfectly used to washing and ironing clothes, using public transport, organising myself, getting myself up on time and cooking.

Cogito, I agree. Your posts have been sensible and thought provoking. Just thought I'd add a bravo as is not common occurance on MN (to give compliments!)

I agree that in general they seem less mature now. for those who think we are being mean I want to point out that WE did it to them. It's not that children have changed, but that we have (with good intentions) done too much for them.

We are not wicked for doing it either because the urge is natural enough. We just have to remember that we are not doing them any favours if we do it all for them and don't let them learn.

Childhood is lasting longer because people start work later. I am in favour of education being available, but I think the govenant is making a mistake in making education complusory until 18.

There are lots of ways that our children are not being allowed to grow up. Very few primary school children are allowed to walk to school. Very few children work for money or help significantly around the house.

Many teens are treated like primary school children and that is part of the reason they act like teens. The problem is getting worse as children are being allowed less and less choice about what they study at secondary school. (For example forcing fifteen year olds to do a a modern language or history)

Third world countries do not have this protracted period of absolence and teens are given adult responsiblity.

ongar it's not just a different style of parenting that produces immature young people.

It's recognised that childhood gets extended at times of recession and contracts if their services are required in war time. I do feel sorry for young people who have to live at home into their 20's [prohibitively expensive accomodation] and are made financially dependent on their parents by lack of paid employment/extending fulltime education. This situation effects the ambitions and aspirations of younger teenagers, too. They don't need to grow up and take responsibility for themselves - in fact they need to patiently accept it.

The ''oh dear, young people today......'' comments by the older generation haven't been consistent thro' history - they have waxed and waned with their economic prospects and the social milieu. The ''what are young people like' grafitti at Pompei vs the rampaging apprentices of medieval europe.

I know quite a few teenagers who are very streetwise but incredibly dependent at home - one doesn't neccessarily predict the other!

I bore people a lot with the story of starting uni in 1982 and sharing a house with 18/19 year-olds that couldn't boil an egg or start a washing machine. So I don't it's a modern phenomenon especially. But it did leave me with the resolve that if I ever had DCs they wouldn't be the ones in that situation.

It's very tricky picking the point where it's Ok for them to operate a kettle or cut something up on a chopping board. I absolutely can't watch DS with a sharp knife and keep breathing at the same time.... I have to leave the sticking plasters somewhere handy and exit the kitchen.

Maybe what we need is some kind of text service that sends prompts...."DD is 12 today! Congrats!! Now, have you shown her how to wire a plug?"

Maybe you're right Lesley

I don't necessarily think it's always a bad thing though.

I used to get the bus home from the town centre at 9 at night when I was eleven (after gymnastics class). One time I was molested by a man on the walk home from the bus stop (it was ok, I ran off before anything really bad happened).

This is just one incident, out of hundreds, where I think my parents put me at unnecessary risk. I didn't enjoy a lot of my childhood because of thing like this, and there was a lot of anxiety. I suffered quite bad mental health problems in my late teens. Sure, I was mature and self sufficient in some ways. But I was quite fucked up and emotionally immature in many others.

I agree from my very limited perspective. I can only compare my brother (age 20) and my own children (age 2.8).

I know my brother never ever had to take a bus anywhere and was bought a mobile to call for a lift when he was about 12 - stark difference to me and my sister who were trusted to bus everywhere and call in via payphone! My mum is always whining about how he is so lazy and never does anything round the house - but then she has never asked him. Never reinforced that actually, washing and ironing doesn't happen by itself and that the dinner fairies don't make it for him!

(Her argument BTW is that he should 'want to do it' which you'd think after 2 other lazy kids and an even lazier OH she would realise just doesn't happen)

I'm not saying it is easy to judge when children should be allowed to do things or take on some responsibility. But I think what we should be working towards is to have 16/17 year olds who are able to do all the basics of looking after themselves, getting to places themselves and dealing with possible employers and agencies.

When I went to uni I knew people who hadn't learnt the basics in terms of cooking - but this seemed to be mainly young men and I think was more to do with sexism. But i don't remember meeting anyone who had never had to negotiate public transport for example.

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Yes I guess it is difficult to judge.

Children may seem ready based on their age and physical size. I guess when you let your children 'go' (alone on a bus or whatever) there is always a small chance something bad might happen (as it might to any adult) and the child has to have the emotional and intellectual ability to 'deal' with that. And I guess all children are different in that respect. Which makes it difficult to judge.

Parents are probably more over cautious these days, or maybe put off making the judgement altogether, because we are more risk adverse as a society in general.

With regard to chores / cooking etc there is no excuse though really...

Well, I think I was negligent with DS about chores/cooking etc. He went to boarding school and in the holidays I just found it easier to do it all myself. After a year at university he has miraculously learnt to cook, run a washing machine, iron etc. Learning this stuff from/with friends was almost certainly a lot more acceptable to him than having his Mum "teach" him.

I am always struck by the number of posters on here who say they won't let their child do/go somewhere at a certain age. And when other posters basically say - oh come on OP at his/her age they really should be able to cope with this - the OP's reply is maybe you are right, but my DC is very immature.

Do people not understand that without gradually been given responsibility and the chance to do things on their own, DC will be immature.

And desperately - I employed 1 20 year old lad 2 years ago - a really nice lad. One day he came in late and when I asked him why he was late he said his mother had forgotten to wake him up!