To think this young man represents so much of what is wrong with champagne socialism?

[Pissfarterleech]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2042623/Rory-Weal-Child-star-Labour-conference-truth-life-poverty.html

nothing I read in the article does not back up what he said. They lost their home and his father his income. He is now living in a 300 grand semi detached in Maidstone (not flash expensive for the area) and going to state school. They labour party were fools though as it should have been obvious how this would be read.

So someone who used to have money can't be helped by the welfare state and be thankful for it?

If you ask me, the whole concept of "champagne socialism" is a total misnomer. You don't need to be poor to be a socialist! In fact surely to believe in something purely because it is in your own self interest is worse than believing in something whether or not it makes you better off? certainly for some "champagne socialists" support for labour / lib dems or progressive policy will actually make them worse off due to taxes to pay towards the welfare state!

Marx was from a wealthy back ground!

Can you not believe in the right to abortions unless you need one, or in free education for all unless you have children in the state system?

Eeerm, he goes to grammar school because that's where his mum sent him. Does that mean that he can never be a labour supporter?

My children have had a fairly comfortable life. The current global recession could make things different though. I must make sure they know that if we lose everything tomorrow they mustn't be grateful for the welfare state.

I think those that decided to give him this platform, and that includes his parents, were wrong wrong wrong.

of course he was not going to able to spout a load of old nonsense on national television and it not be dissected.

He gave the impression that his family were good old fashioned workers...not true.
He gacve the impression his family had fallen on hard times through tory mismanagement...not true.
He gave the impression his family were now living in penuary...not true.

Young people need to learn that you cannot get away with this sort of rubbish.

But I don't blame the lad...he was having his fifteen minutes.

What makes me sooooo angry about the whole thing is that if confernece wanted to wheel out a young person whose family had really suffered difficult times, who were really suffering under the cuts...there are fecking millions. Boys and girls (it's never a girl wheeled out is it?) who could have stood up there and spoken passionately and truthfully about Britain today.

But no, instead they gave us...this...

After many years of observing the elite of the Labour and LibDem parties I have come to the conclusion that what motivates many (not all) of them is not a 'concern for the ordinary working man' but a deep seated envy of people who are richer than they are.

They are often did quite well academically at school and often got a good degree but somehow thay never made as much money and don't live in quite as big a house as they think they deserve. They especially hate Tory party supporters who have money and a nice house and send DCs to private school.

It really is a simple as that.

Yeah, disagreeing with the Tories is to do with jealousy issues about the rich.

Oh FFS.

The thing is, we know that people want benefits to stay. We don't need another impassioned plea on the subject. He didn't think to get to the root of anything or think of any concrete reasons for why they should stay apart from "they're useful, we want them".

MoreBeta! Are you serious?

morebeta: that's probably unfair, in fact the reason most of them don't earn as much is because they chose to go into politics not private sector (e.g. David Laws). Of course they are likely to be well educated, politics is an academic activity (drafting and scrutinising long and often complicated potential laws). I think the reason Tories criticise champagne socialism and is because they just can't understand someone believing in something not in their own interest; they can't understand people not being entirely selfish.

I think the the labour party PR machine is at fault here. They should have known this boy's background would be investigated and laid bare. They could have done more to protect him from the nastier elements of the press.

Having spent probably too much time with the elite of the Labour party I would say that most of them are committed to making positive changes. It's not jealousy.

However, there is an absurd amount of ego involved and an addiction to the Westminster life.
The current elite are so far divorced from any sort of normal existence that there is little to choose between their life and the life of their tory adversaries.

And that is why they it didn't occur to them that wheeling out this lad might just piss off entire flanks of ordinary voters. Sigh.

wordfactory you have perfectly articulated why I and so many other lifelong labour voters voted differently last time.

It was such a wasted opportunity for Labour to showcase a young person with something true and touching to say. Instead, they clearly tried to show welfare was for everyone and ended up looking more than a little bit dickish

And yes, I have found throughout my life that there are huge seams of envy running through many of my Labour friends. Most of whom haven't quite got the house, the lifestyle or the status they believed they would get all those years ago at university.

Thought you were talking about Dave Gilmour's prat of a son and his crackpot mum.

Leaving thread now before the Thatcherites gather enmass and smoke comes out of my ears

And, I will say this. i want to vote Labour again , I want them to succeed but the leadership are simply too far removed form the voters. They have lost sight of what ordinary working people need and want, they live in cushioned financial comfort and will never know the worry of having to send your kid to a sink school . The Tories are also cushioned, no one would deny that, but they don't pretend not to be, that's the key.

Oh FGS. I come from a sort of similar background to this lad and can understand where he is coming from. My family weren't rich but we lived in a nice semi in a nice area. Parents totally overstretched themselves debt wise and the house ended up being repossessed and our family lived in one room in a homeless shelter for 3 years. We were then given council accommodation after then.

What I think would be really disingenuous OP (and why I think your post is not thought through at all) would be to have received help from the Govt and then to turn around and say we didn't believe in the Welfare State. All of us have only ever voted Labour. Even when Labour brought in the 50% tax rate in April 2010 which meant I will pay an extra £50k of tax this year, I still voted Labour the following month because I believe in the need to help those less fortunate than me, particularly if things go wrong. Does the fact that most of my upbringing was very comfortable exclude me from believing in the Welfare State? Does the fact that I am well off now mean I can and should only be a Tory supporter? Am I now not poor enough to support Labour? I pity the kind of narrow minded thinking that lies behind your post and will no doubt be passed on to the next generation but if that kid was my son, I would be proud about his beliefs even if I thought he will cringe about the speech in 20 year time.

I once spent an excrutiating lunch with a senior female politician who told me ad nauseum about her constituency and what was needed. Little did she know that I was born and raised in her consituency. My Mum still lives there.

This politician had no clue about the poeple living there and their lives.
How could she? She's not from there. She was parachuted intio a safe seat. She only spends a day or so there a week, the rest of the time she's in Westminster.

I can't undeerstand what formerly being wealthyhas got to do with anything ??
His dad was bankrupt-he had nothing and the welfare state which he had probably never even thought about before, came to his rescue?? what is wrong with being gratful forthat? Why is he disingenuous?
..and a good point.How are poor families supposed to get their kids to school
.I have to contribute £340 a year to get my 6thform.That is not means tested AT ALL!

God, what an odious little shit.

Ah, I hear across the politico bongo drums (ie a text from a mate) that Ed is feeeeeeurious.

Aha! I bet he is! I like Eddie, I think his heart is in the right place generally speaking but putting their young lad up was ill thought out. It has done Labour no favours when they need plenty.

novice you clearly haven't read my post. I have voted Labour all my life until now. I feel, like millions of others clearly do, that they have lost their way and have pandered too much to certain sectors at the expense of others. Most people believe passionately in helping others more vulnerable but not when that traps end encourages people to remain in poverty and worklessness.

Funny how so many Labour politicians went to private school and send their children private too but the Labour party is offically against bringing back grammar schools.

Nothing is too good for the workers?

Sorry but I was at University with so many champagne socialists who spouted off about supporting the miners when Margaret Thatcher was in power but went to elite London state schools and private schools and their parents earned far more than mine ever did.

Typical Daily Mail exaggeration. Colfe's is only a very minor public school.

snort at Grovel.

I agree with WordFactory.

Caught a little bit of his speech on TV yesterday, haven't read the links in the OP.

IMO, the Welfare State is at risk because those with money don't want to contribute to it. They think it encourages fecklessness, dependancy etc. With that in mind, this boy's speech was a reminder to such people that they might be "all right Jack" just now, but things can change and when they do they change fast. It was a reminder that they might call on the Welfare State themselves sometime, so it'd be a good idea not to dismantle it - just in case.

I considered his speech to have been targeted at those people and not just the electorate in general.