David Attenborough joins the campaign against creationism in schools.

[Peanutbuttertuesday]

I've posted before about the issue of religion being taught as fact in schools before. I'd be interested to hear what everyone has to say about this.
Discuss!
www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8769353/David-Attenborough-joins-campaign-against-creationism-in-schools.html

So no schools actually do this?

One (maybe two) sponsors have expressed an interest, but have been told by Gove it's not acceptable (according to the linked article). None have been approved. It seems none will be approved during Gove's tenure.

Why is there a need to campaign?

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4946222.stm

www.guardian.co.uk/education/2002/may/24/schools.uk2

creation.com/emmanuel-college-doing-something-right

And yes, this school does receive state funding.

I remember this as one of the earlier concerns about creationism in science lessons in mainstream state schools, rather than free schools or Emmanuel College:

www.guardian.co.uk/education/2006/mar/10/schools.religion?INTCMP=SRCH

I think it was part of a wider move by OCR to have more about social debates in Science. Perhaps that is one of the reasons why so many independent and grammar schools teach the WJEC GCSE curriculum, which is more pure Science, rather than using the OCR specifications.

Love DA but uneasy at the suggestion of banning anything from a curriculum. Surely any science teacher worth their salt will want to include creationism as part of the teaching of evolution, to show how creationism is not supported by credible scientific evidence and evolution is?

Scaevola there is need to campaign about a system that leaves this at the discretion of one politician, in this case, Gove. Another MP might not share his opinion. Then what?

The problem is, Beveridge, that there are science teachers who aren't worth their salt. There was one on R4 the other morning - a head of science in some mainstream school talking drivel versus (as ever) Richard Dawkins. Saying things like 'we don't know how old fossils are' - to which RD of course responds 'yes we do!'

Whether its on the curriculum or not, if you're a schoolkid and the most senior 'scientist' you know can trot out ID/creationist misinformation, its surely a bad thing.

I am a Catholic and have educated both of my sons in Catholic education.

It amazes me the number of parents who are what my Mother used to call "European" Catholics (meaning Catholic in name but not practice) who choose to send their children to Catholic schools but then kick up a fuss when they are taught religion according to the rites and practices of the Catholic church.

I live in Ireland and currently there is a case where devoutly atheist parents send their child to the local catholic school (only school in the village) and insist that their child be removed from the class during religion lessons. But as the whole ethos of the school is catholic and receives funding from the church religion is brought into every lesson overtly and regularly.

(Right children today we will learn all about geography and marvel at God for making the world so diverse and wonderful. Shite get little Johnny out of the classroom now..........)

These parents say the school is not taking their atheism seriously enough and their little Johnny is returning home each day confused and frightened of this omnipresent omniscient omnipowerful omniwhatever being. Damn right! Know and fear him for he is the Lord thy God....ooooh sorry about that it was just a moment of weakness.....

Am I mistaken in thinking that even the Catholic Church does not dispute the theory of Evolution these days? Surely anyone who wants to teach Creationism as part of a science lesson rather than RE is a bit of a nut job? Shouldn't be allowed in state schools and I also don't think that any school should be given free rein with their own curriculum either. In many areas they might be the only choice of school so it isn't like parents can always vote with their feet.

Why is Creationism even taught in RE? I have never met a mainstream Christian (CofE, RC etc) who believes in Creationism, do they exist outside of a handful of minority sects?

There are reams of "educational" materials and programs imported from the US that have a Creationist focus, not just the science but all subjects. Some are used in private extreme Christian brainwashing centres places, I can't even utter the word 'school' in this context. It's utterly bonkers. I commend the push to stop the rot and send a message that it won't be an option to even consider.

IggyPup: so if it's the only school in the village, what are non-Catholic parents supposed to do? What do Jewish and Muslim parents do - just suck it up?

ds goes to a CofE school and has a real aptitude for science. this makes him quite confused re the story of adam and eve, and dinosaurs/fossils. the practical side of him conflicts with the side that enjoys learning about his religion.

but, yes, science is an issue. I was talking to a geology lecturer the other day about ds and his talents/enthusiasm and he was lamenting the way that science is taught in schools.

I guess it's fair enough to teach it in RE as a way of saying that in this religion this was an early myth to explain the origins of the world. It's only extreme sects that believe it as a fact these days. They should not be allowed to have such influence.
Somewhere in America there is a Creationist museum for brainwashing children. I think it shows dinosaurs roaming around alongside people....
Here is a link to the virtual tour
creationmuseum.org/whats-here/photo-preview/

creationmuseum.org/whats-here/photo-preview/

Malinois: Yup, suck it up big time.

I don't think Ireland has many Jewish citizens but there is now a growing Muslim community in most towns. There are even Protestants too!

I think as these faiths are monotheistic there is a common ground that we can all agree on before coming to blows. Its the militant atheists that are causing a stink.

The Catholic church owns most of the school buildings in the country and following on from the Priestly paedophile scandals the plain people of Ireland are calling for the schools owned by the Church to be made over to the state in partial reparation of the evil committed by church leaders.

In a lot of villages, there just isn't the population or funds to provide an alternative school to the Catholic one.

When I was at school, I got an A* in guilt!

I don't think there are any. It's just with all these academies and free schools starting up that don't have to follow the national curriculum, people are worried that such people might be able to do so in future if they start up one of these establishments.

I don't think there are any. It's just with all these academies and free schools starting up that don't have to follow the national curriculum, people are worried that such people might be able to do so in future if they start up one of these establishments

Pastafarianism was invented in the US to lampoon Creationiams, and more importantly to demand the same rights that Creationists were trying to force in schools (ie if you can force in one daft belief, here is another one too....)

IggyPup:

I think as these faiths are monotheistic there is a common ground that we can all agree on before coming to blows. Its the militant atheists that are causing a stink.

Because of course people of (only slightly) different faiths have never come to blows in Ireland. It's all the fault of those darned atheists.

Catholics don't believe in creationism

The Catholic school is rarely the only school as they have never been the 'village school' in the way CofE schools are.

The CofE doesn't support creationism either.

That said I do sympathise with parents who want a non religious school.

I have never heard of creationism being taught as fact even in RE lessons - only ever mentioned in context of creation stories of world religions. I'm CofE and have never come across it being perceived as fact in church or held as fact by mainstream clergy - I think those views went out in the nineteenth century.

So I think it's all a non-issue BUT I do worry that it could creep in via free schools and academies

I was taught creationism in Biology. I was also taught about Darwinian theory. This is how we learned to assess theories and decide which one was most likely! Open discussion is how we learn to debate, assess and think critically. Censorship leads to ignorance.

Of course, if we're going to ban the teaching of all non-proven theories then I guess Darwin has to go too............

I teach A level biology and I have invited the local chaplain in to debate the issue. He was very supportive of intelligent design and sprouted numerous evidence to support the point. I allowed the students to make up their own mind based on the evidence presented and debate the issue. To be honest they thought it was barmy theory despite the lovely chaplain being so passionate about it.
I'm not sure I would be comfortable with it being taught to younger students purely because they may not have the skills to evaluate the evidence effectively. Although I'm not comfortable with censorship, the thought of intelligent design and creationism being taken seriously in this day and age makes me want to weep and while it seems a minor issue in the UK, it has enormous support in the US.

I disagree totally, both theories should be taught. Science cannot explain everything. There are still phenomenen that are a mystery to scientists.

Inviting a chaplain in an A level Biology class... why???
Creationism should not be taught be taught in a science class because it is not a scientific theory. By all means discuss it in RS but giving it a forum in a science class in IMO is supporting the idea that it is a scientific theory and therefore wrong.