To think that rights/wrongs aside, a council needing to make £300m cuts should focus it's funds somewhere other than evicting gypsies?

[Blubell]

I know there are massive fors and againsts in the Dale Farm evictions, and I don't want to start a big travellers debate, but in this time of austerity measures, and the fact that Essex council needs to cut £300m in 3 years, is evicting the site now, when it's a case that has been going on for 10 years really the best way to spend the little cash they have? Its been reported it's going to cost the council £18m to return the site - which used to be a scrapyard so hardly a place of outstanding beauty - back to greenbelt, how many carers, libraries etc will be lost to fund that? Just a thought.......

Notacitychick -- you are missing my point about making the police do their jobs. You are not just paying for the salaries of the police force with your taxes, but you are also paying higher insurance rates as long as you are willing to take no/file a claim for an answer.

Oooh, Cookcleanerchauffeur, those crafty Travellers with their magic words and false complaints. What could a police force possibly do in the face of such might?

cookcleaner I think that's being kind....

I expect your nice suburb actually has police, lots of villages don't now as police stations have been closed down. How would you feel about being 'harassed' if you knew the nearest police were in the next town?

I have just seen a report by R Dawson who in 2000 surveyed gypsies and travellers views of crime. Below is the table of the type of crime and the explanation provided by the gypsies and travellers.

Poaching - includes hare coursing, and shooting. The explanation of Travellers was that it was ?natural?.
Bare fist fighting - Seen as a tradition and bets are placed, not viewed as an illegal practice by Gypsies and Travellers.
Shoplifting and money-back -Items are taken from a store and then brought back for reimbursement. Viewed as a ?harmless? crime.
Conning old people - Either through undertaking unnecessary ?repairs? or stealing through deception and disguise. Dawson found the travelling community suggested that old people should not be left to fend for themselves and therefore it was society?s fault.
Thefts from old people - Burglary of old people?s savings from their home, similar explanation to above.
Tarmac scams - Quote one price before the job, and then demand extra money, with menaces, upon completion. Explanation to Dawson, was that this was ?good business?.
Antique scams - Offer a good price for one antique and then a very low price on others, having gained the person?s confidence with the first price. Travellers? explanation was that people shouldn?t be greedy.
Antique theft - Following the above, burglary is carried out in homes where good antiques have been identified.
Social security frauds - People claiming under multiple names and addresses. Explained that ?everybody does it?.
Vehicle crime - Theft and ?ringing?. Travellers claimed it didn?t harm anyone because it was covered by their insurance.
Caravan theft - Sometimes involved claiming on insurance and then getting back the caravan and having it stolen again.

So when they con old people out of thousands of pounds, it is our fault ... Duh, didn't realise that! Let's see what math has to say about this ......

math fwiw, I knew that your comment was directed to scarah not me, but decided to answer anyway, this being a discussion board...

Furthermore, don't I bloody know it about the insurance rates

But, let me ask you - what would you do in my situation? You're such an expert on 'naice' communities?

Well math I have some knowledge professionally of the planning system. But in any event you know as well as I do that non-travellers would not have got permission before the event for what the Dale Farm people have asked for it for afterwards. Therefore no racism involved.

Would you be happy living near Dale Farm?

If not get off your high bloody horse and support the poor sods who do.

math - I googled retrospective planning permission as you suggested. I didn't get pages of cynicism about the process. Instead I get

1. a family who had to apply retospectively for planning permission for a wooden wendy house - it was granted
2. for a conservatory - permission denied and family had to take it down
3. someone contemplating building a garage that they were told they would not get planning permission for but apply retrospectively - the advice on the forum is not to do this as there is a high risk they will have to take it down.
4. A document alleging instances when Tesco have built and applied for retrospective planning permission and listing when tehy have been successful in this. Although it has been refused on occasions.
5. Travellers applying for retrospective planning permission.
6. People seeking advice on how to apply for retrospective planning permission for an extension that has been there for at least 10 years.

The only cynicism about how retrospective planning permission is applied is in the document about Tesco and the Travellers.

So what you posted is inaccurate.

I suggest for starters banding a really large number of residents together and letting your MP know that no matter how much you feel you are throwing up in your mouth on election day you will be voting for whoever runs against him or her. I don't know if first past the post is a better system for putting pressure on a sitting MP or not; proportional representation in Ireland tends to make the electoral system quite sensitive to local grievances. I also suggest you attend every single constituency clinic your MP holds, preferably with a group of your friends, and make your feelings known. Plus the obvious letter writing to the MP and other representatives, and letters to the local press about how little the MP cares about his or her constituents.

Try again Lesley. I have to attend to the DCs but will return with some google results.

Math - any comments about travellers views of crime as per my last post?

Oh Lesley, looks like you need to inTo the duance's corner!!!!!

math - again a sixth form argument - you have no knowledge of our situation.

We are in England here, we do not have PR in any form, and our MP has no power over the council or local police. MP's may have an impact on legislation in parliament, but they have no say in local planning issues. This is under local council jurisdiction. We could go to all the MP's clinics from now until 2014, but it wouldn't make any difference as he is a Tory MP who already campaigns against Travellers flouting of planning permission on greenbelt land. This is a common occurrence already in his constituency. He is already on our side .

With regard to the police/planning issues - we again already have the local town councillor and the pcso on our side - they speak for us, but are also mindful that they need to be very delicate when it comes to travellers issues.

Your last post shows that you do have very little life experience of these issues, or that you are still in Ireland, and so do not understand that things are very different here.

What do you think about the news today, that campaigners are seeking to get the scaffolding at Dale Farm listed status by English Heritage?

Ha ha ha ha ..... oh ha ha ha ha ...... oh ha ha ha ha ha!

On BBC news - www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-15087217.

Priceless!

I saw that. Bare faced cheek.

The bigotry of people on here with the exception of Maths is breathtaking. Well done; I am rarely shocked by this type of opinion, but I am genuinely

By the way, AWA, weren't you agreeing earlier that travellers aren't a racial minority?

"The bigotry of people on here with the exception of Maths is breathtaking"

There's an old joke where a big parade of soldiers is marching by and one woman says "oh look that's my boy there! Bless him! He's the only one marching in step"