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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to get a puppy now?

149 replies

CoralRose · 17/09/2011 13:11

This is our current situation:

Semi rural house. 3 bed. Large living space. Large garden, surrounded by fields.

One (very old, very placid) cat.

3 DC:
5yo DS - school full time.
2.6 DS - Nursery two mornings a week.
4mo DS - Errr...dribbles alot.

DH works full time, me not working for at least another 2 years, even then will be part time if at all.

So WIBU to get a puppy now? If I am... how long should we wait?

OP posts:
higgle · 17/09/2011 16:12

I come from a family where there have always been dogs, usually two. Regardless of how old my children were I have always had one or two, but only two puppies (others joined the family as adults). My experience at the time was that if you were running round after small children then running around after a puppy doesn't add much to it.
It is easier in a laid back rural home, where there isn't much that is new or cream coloured - maybe if you are houseproud and live in a new house with pale carpets it is more of an ordeal. I really think that children should grow up around animals. I hope a good rescue would let you have a puppy.

Coca · 17/09/2011 16:18

Another thing that might be worth considering is that your local puppy class may not be suitable for you and your dog. I took my loopy cross breed along to one and came back despairing each time. It turned out we just needed a more breed specific aproach to training rather than the generic stuff they were teaching.
I'm not trying to be negative or patronising pointing things out, I just wish I had put a bit more thought into things before we took on our puppy. actually scrap that I wouldn't be without him but I wish I had been more prepared!

CoralRose · 17/09/2011 16:54

Okay so perhaps a beagle might not be a good idea [thanks for your not-at-all-patronising-post booyhoo] Hmm

What breed then? Small to medium, and although, MmeLindor, your dog is absolutely gorgeous, DH will not agree to anything remotely fluffy Grin

Am also considering that perhaps a young dog rather than a puppy might be better, although I am more than willing to put the hard work in with a puppy and love the idea and the challenge of raising a pup, I've looked at your link, bitter, and think perhaps we should rehome. Breaks my heart looking at all those unwanted dogs.

OP posts:
booyhoo · 17/09/2011 17:08

how was my post patronising? Confused i gave you my experiene of a beagle

CoralRose · 17/09/2011 17:13

"sorry OP but iam PMSL at the idea of letting a beagle off in a field and havingany hopeof getting itback."

Maybe I took it the wrong way...

OP posts:
Birdsgottafly · 17/09/2011 17:15

Small to maedium gives you lots of scope.

If you want something pretty go for a spaniel, King Charles are less boisterous.

If you are bothered by rats, look for a terrier type. Boys love terriers.

booyhoo · 17/09/2011 17:17

i think you did. ifyou had any experience of beagles you would know exactly why your comment about the field had me laughing. it wasn't meant in a patronising way at all. perhaps i should have put a Grin after it. tone doesn't come across well in text.

QuietTiger · 17/09/2011 17:19

CoralRose - I've read through your thread, and FWIW, these are my opinions as someone who is an experienced rescuer who has dealt with all sorts of things, including the carnage of puppies and young children.

Before you get a dog, pedigree or rescue, RESEARCH YOUR BREEDS. PLEASE. So many people end up with puppies that grow into teenage dogs with issues, because they have not researched their breeds.

Why an older dog is better for a young family than a puppy: This is taken from the Wiccaweys Border Collie Rescue website to give you an idea...(I work closely with them). It applies to ALL dog breeds however, which is why you MUST research your breeds.

Myth 1: I have small children, so I want a puppy.

Without a doubt, this is the most common reason people want a puppy. A sweet, small puppy just seems like the best choice for sweet, small children.

You know those cute adverts where collie puppies climb all over a giggling child? Have you ever noticed how short it is? That?s because they could only film for a few seconds before the welts rose, the blood dripped, and the child began to scream for its mother. Puppies have needle sharp teeth that they happily sink into anyone who walks by. They also have sharp nails that scratch when they jump up -- and on a small child, those front feet and teeth land just about face height.

Puppies leave "presents" that your toddler always seems to find before you do. Puppies wake your children during the night. After all, a puppy is a baby too ? why should it be any different for them? A night is a long time ? why should a puppy alone be expected to go throughout the night without crying for ?Mum?. You wouldn?t expect a young human baby too.

A puppy doesn?t know the difference between his stuffed toy and Little Sophie?s Teddy that she really MUST have to fall asleep.

Suppose you get a puppy when little Jack is 2. In six months, Jack will be about 1 inch taller and 3 pounds heavier. However, the 8-month-old puppy will now be as tall as Jack and outweigh him by 20 pounds. And those baby teeth will have been replaced by big snappers that need to chew.
Of course, puppies and small children do successfully co-habitate, if you have the time, the patience and the understanding to put the work in.

In our experience, your child will go through far less Asprin and Plasters with a calmer 4+ year old dog who has been fully assessed with children.

Myth 2: It?s better to get a puppy. With an older dog, you never know what you?re getting.

All puppies are cute; all puppies love everyone. It?s not until a dog hits sexual maturity that some breed characteristics and/or innate behavioral problems start to surface.

With a collie, sometimes the working instinct doesn?t show itself until they hit 6 months plus (teenager!). One day you will have a sweet pup wanting the play with younger members of the family, and the next day you suddenly have a young adolescene working dog who rounds the children up and nips them to make them move.

We couldn't even start to estimate how many calls we?ve had from people who?ve paid lots of money for a 'pedigree' puppy, who is now a year or two old and biting people, attacking other dogs, or engaging in some oddball neurotic behavior.

Having a piece of paper that says your puppy is 'Pedigree' is not a guarentee that your puppy has been 'well bred' and 'well bought up", and sometimes it feels like the disreputable breeders grossly outnumber the responsible ones.

The truth is this: when we list a 4-month-old puppy, we can only guess what kind of adult she?ll make. When we list an 2 year old plus dog, we can predict pretty accurately what kind of dog you?ll have forever.

Myth 3: Why do I need 6 ft fences? If you train your dog right, he?ll stay in the garden.

Many people believe this, right up until the moment the dog is hit by a car, eats slug pellets in the neighbor?s garden, or is stolen. Just because your previous dogs didn?t jump the fence, it doesn?t mean that a new dog won?t. It has nothing to do with training, or whether the dog ?naughty?.

Collies are inherently nosey and inquisitive, and they like to have specific boundries. If they have the instinct in them to ?patrol the perimiter? then they will keep going until they find a boundry they can?t pass. If they are in the garden, and they hear something exciting going on elsewhere, then they may try see if they can be involved somehow.

Myth 4: When I was growing up, we had a PERFECT dog.

No, you didn?t. Trust us, your old dog was only perfect because you were 8 and didn?t have to clean up after him and be responsible for him. I know you believed he was perfect, but you also believed in Father Christmas and honest government then too.

Everyone seems to forget the times on walks when Shep would chase joggers and bikers. The times he used to nip your bum while you were playing in the garden, sometimes so hard you had bruises and it bled. The times while everyone was at work and school that he?d chew the furniture, empty the bins, redecorate the house to his own dog style. The time everyone came down on Christmas to find all the presents under the tree trashed...

Myth 5: Border Collies stop being puppies around a year old.

BUUUUZZZZZ! I?m sorry. Try 4 or 5 for most. Many BCs don?t calm down and hit their stride until they?re 6 or 7. Have a look at our retirement home section for more information on how active older dogs can be.

Myth 6: I want a dog without dominance issues, so I want a female.

For starters, it?s impossible to make gender-based absolutes.

It all depends on the individual dog, but don?t think for a minute that a female is a sure ticket to a passive, submissive dog ? in our experience it is almost certainly the reverse.

Myth 7: My 8 month old dog is biting people. He?s not lunging or growling, but he makes little nips on arms and legs. I can?t keep an aggressive dog.

You have to remember what Border Collies were originally bred to do. Border Collies herd. It?s what they do. It?s what they will always do. And the chances are, that?s exactly what he?s doing to your friends and family. This is why as we say earlier in this section - you can't always predict how that nice, cute and fluffy little puppy is going to turn out - not so cute and fluffy now, is he? When you take a collie into your home, you HAVE to be prepared for this instinct.

What the dog is doing is called nipping. It?s what happens when collies are working sheep, they nip at the sheeps legs and bottoms to make them move. Nipping is part of a collies working instinct. It?s there. It?s instinct.

Contrary to what people say, we do not believe that you can not train a working instinct out of a collie ? and why should you?

Myth 8: I?m unsure about getting a rescue dog, because I?m afraid he won?t bond to me.

That sound you hear is all the people with rescued dogs falling over laughing. Because the exact opposite is nearly always true--your rescue dog will CLING to you.

Look at it from the dog?s perspective. Perhaps she?s spent the bulk of the last year being left in the garden and ignored because she committed the terrible sin of no longer being a puppy. She got bored when she was left at home alone with no company and no toys, so she made her own entertainment. She was so excited when everyone came home, and so pleased to see them ? but all she got was a beating because they discovered the chewed carpet. She didn?t know she was being beaten for chewing the carpet ? that was earlier in the day and she?d forgotten about it. All she knows is that she is being beaten for welcoming her family home. The only other attention she gets is when they yell at her for barking. No-one wants to take her for a walk, or play with her.
Finally, they take her for a car-ride?either dumping her somewhere where she can have a "fighting chance.", or if she is lucky they will hand her into a rescue centre. Despite everything, she sits there waiting for their return.

Or perhaps she's spent the last year on a chain in a farmyard? She wasn't particularly good at working, so the farmer isn't interested in her. She's just the useless dog in the yard. She gets fed when they can be bothered. Good for nothing dog - a tool that doesn't work properly. If she is lucky, she is saved, or escapes. Perhaps the farmer just dumps her. It wasn't a good life, but it was the life she knew.

If she goes to an large rescue centre; she sits in the loud, scary kennel & run, starting to lose faith that her family will ever find her. The kennel people are nice, and she gets a walk a day, but she is one of a hundred needy dogs they have to care for. She starts to become neurotic. She is a collie, she can?t stand being closed in. She needs to get out. She starts circling and bouncing off the walls.

When people walk past and look at her, she barks, ?please, please ? take me, pay attention to me, I need to get out, I can?t stand it in here?. The people walk by. All they see is a neurotic collie, out of control ? and think, ?not in our home?. They don?t see the dog beneath.

You take her home to your house, you give her a bed and bowl of her own, and a crate where she feels safe. You speak quietly. If she messes on the carpet, you don?t seem to mind--you just take her outside and then clean it up. You feed her regularly AND give her toys and treats. She may even have a big brother or sister to play with. She gets kisses and cuddles. You give her little jobs to do, you take her to training classes ? you have FUN together. When she goes out in the car, she always comes back!

Your rescue dog?s biggest fear is that you will spontaneously combust!

She?s not going to let you out of her sight for one minute. People with rescue dogs learn to function with a 70 pound shadow following us everywhere.

Obviously, it has been adapted slightly to apply to collies, but the majority of it applies to all dog breeds. I'm not going to say "Don't get a dog because of the kids", because quite frankly, if you want a dog, you're not going to listen to a stranger from the internet telling you not to. As a rescuer, I am saying, PLEASE think it through carefully and as a cat lover PLEASE* think about the impact on your elderly cat - his needs matter too.

CoralRose · 17/09/2011 17:19

Are terriers a bit nippy though?

OP posts:
DooinMeCleanin · 17/09/2011 17:21

Can I be the first to suggest 'the nanny dog' aka the Staffordshire Bull Terrier? They are excellent dogs to be with children and have, by nature, an unending love and patience for them. And along with the greyhound, many of them are not too fond of the rain. They'd much prefer a nice cuddle in front of the fire.

My second suggestion would be a rescued greyhound. They truely are gentle giants and while they are not small, they don't take up much room. This because if it looks like it could be a bed, a greyhound will make it fit, no matter how uncomfortable it looks to the rest of the world Grin, if it is bed a greyhound will sleep in it, be a cats bed or Super king sized people bed, although the do love a good stretch out on the sofa. They are also known as the 35 mile per hour couch potato Grin e.g they don't need much exercise. Two twenty minute walks a day and the occassional run in an enclosed and safe space will be more than enough. This should be managable with children.

CoralRose · 17/09/2011 17:24

Gosh QuietTiger...I think you just put the final nail in the 'I want a puppy' coffin!

OP posts:
CoralRose · 17/09/2011 17:26

Staffy is most definitely a no go. I know it's awful but we lived in an area where they had a very bad rep. I don't think I could shake it and be able to bond.

Greyhound is too big... DH's family have them and they are gorgeous but they are just too big for us.

OP posts:
DooinMeCleanin · 17/09/2011 17:27

A whippet or a small Lurcher?

clam · 17/09/2011 17:28

Before you decide for certain, take a look at the "new puppy" thread (Doghouse) part 1 and part 2. It has turned into a bit of a blog for a few of us who all got our puppies May/June time, but has now evolved into the next generation. It has all the realities of puppy ownership, good and bad. We've cried, boasted, despaired and laughed.
No "rescue" promoters on it, just friendly support and advice.

Birdsgottafly · 17/09/2011 17:33

Terriers need to run about, explore undergrowth and smell lots of different smells. The problem was that they became a popular dog for pensioners, who couldn't give them enough exercise, so became bored and snappy. As a breed they are hunters and foragers, you sound as though you could accomodate one. They are hardy enough to be penned outside.

I totally agree about researching your breed, as i said i love GSD, they are the breed for me, they don't grow up until about 2 years old, so i will very soon go from the toddler years to teenage years, but i am prepared for that. The one i have now is a terrible moaner which some GSD are, the whistling that she does, doesn't bother me.

Greyhounds are very laid back indoors. Different breeds behave differently and have different needs.

discrete · 17/09/2011 17:38

I got a puppy when ds1 was 2 yo and another when ds2 was 15 mo.

I don't regret it for a second. Potty training took less than a week for puppy 1, 3 days for puppy 2!

They are both fantastic dogs and I think the dc did get a lot out of growing up with them.

bemybebe · 17/09/2011 17:43

Bravo!!!

toboldlygo · 17/09/2011 18:00

It will be like having another baby in the house - if you're prepared to take that on, it can work. Puppy will need to be watched constantly in order to house train, consistent fair crate training, being able to take it outside at a moment's notice, weekly socialisation and training classes. It is very, very draining even without the demands of kids on top of that.

However, another PMSL at a beagle - they are hunting dogs, require a very great deal of exercise, are hard to train and would be off like a shot if you took it to a field and let it off, never to be seen again.

Ditto spaniels unless you mean one of the toy/pet kind (CKCS, etc.) for the same reasons, generally amenable to training but will need a lot of exercise and a lot of training to create the kind of dog you want.

I'd avoid all of the working breeds and look at more typically companion breeds - greyhounds and whippets are incredibly lazy, very forgiving in the exercise department, generally big lazy cuddlebugs. CKCS, some terriers (ones that haven't usually worked in a good few generations and are now 'pet' breeds, something like a Boston, westie...), the smaller poodles, bichons etc.

toboldlygo · 17/09/2011 18:05

Also, if you haven't had a dog before, are you prepared for the dirt and mess? Even a very small toy dog will create an astonishing amount of extra cleaning and your house will stink of dog forever more. It's really unbelievable how much dust, mud, dander, hair, pee and poo one small dog can generate.

CoralRose · 17/09/2011 18:06

I can't help but feel that we need a very energetic dog to match our very energetic boys?

Is there lots of stray beagles about then? Surely they don't all run off?

OP posts:
squeakytoy · 17/09/2011 18:12

You cannot just let a dog off to go for its own run in a field. As the owner you have to be in control of your dog.

DooinMeCleanin · 17/09/2011 18:15

No, no, no. You are going about it all wrong. I have a very, very energetic dog. There is no way in the world I would be able to cope with him and three small children. You need a relaxed dog who won't take up much time.

clam · 17/09/2011 18:24

Slightly off-topic I know, but I would recommend waiting until early summer to get one, whatever you go for. I wouldn't have fancied all that hanging around in the garden with him watching out for wees and poos in the cold winter months. I'm hoping that it's less necessary once November comes, in that he'll be older and able to do it without me cheerleading.

Marne · 17/09/2011 18:28

I think you need a greyhound they are lazy and easy to look after (as they sleep a lot).

I think Staffies are great family dog's, mine sleeps for most of the day, knows when its dinner time, has a walk in the evening and half an hour of chasing a ball and then returns to the sofa for some more sleep. Other than that, she's great with the dd's gets on well with the cat (they sleep together, the dog cleans the cat and the cat cleans the dog). Its a shame they get such bad press because if you think about it 'they are the perfect dog for a busy family', they need a lot of training at first but then they seem to just fit in.

ok, i will stop big uping Staffies Grin, there are lots of dogs to choose from but spaniels, labs and beagles need a lot of exersize.

DizzyKipper · 17/09/2011 18:43

It was a no once I got to the very old, placid cat. S/he's old, puppies can be quite hectic and not exactly respecting of the elderly animals and their need for quiet/not being disturbed, and continually demanding of elderly animal to play with them - not getting a 'play' out of the animal they may just be content to wind said animal up instead. It really wouldn't be fair to the animal you have now to get a very young and energetic other animal. I know at some point you said how the elderly cat is on the bed most of the time, but you're surely not saying that the cat will never come downstairs/leave the room, and/or be in the vicinity of the puppy whilst trying to drink or get food. It just seems such a shame to potentially waste the last few years life of your cat, causing stress and possibly even fear, when all you would've needed to do was wait a few more years until your cat passed. Yes your cat and puppy may get on fine and there'll be absolutely nothing to worry about and they could even be the bets of friends. But right now you don't know that, and have no way of knowing that, and out of respect and love for your feline friend I'd ask you not to risk it for the sake of your needing a puppy now.

And that was my thoughts before I'd even read through to where you have young children. Honestly I think your kids will get a lot more out of a puppy when they're old enough to understand, maybe around 4 or 5.