AIBU to think an untidy, but clean house does NOT equate to child neglect?

[hidingfornow]

Sorry, I've name changed for this.

I see DM about 3 times a year. Once a year is in their immaculately kept, spacious house, with no storage problems, no kids toys, hardly any books, etc.

The other 2 times is in my cramped, 2 bedroomed terrace, which has barely enough room for my furniture, let alone storage for DS's many toys, nor all the books I've obtained over the years while studying a literature course and having a deep love for books.

Today, DM turns up. There's a box of scrap paper and crayons by the fireplace which DS uses for drawing, arts, that kind of stuff. I've never found anywhere to store it, where it doesn't get in the way of something else. There's a few books on the mantelplace, just from that being closer to me when I was reading earlier. Oh, and a few wires. The house is far from being a tip. It's not spotless, it's not immaculate, but it's not a tip.

DF comments saying "I thought you said it was tidy", then laughs as he arrives. The first fucking thing he says to me.Straight away, DM starts launches into a rant, telling me that DS could be taken off me for neglect if social services came round, as my house wasn't tidy enough. Again, I accept my house isn't spotless, but it's tidy enough, given the lack of storage options here.

The thing is, she criticises every time she sees me. If it's not that my hair's too long, it's that I'm studying too much, or DS is getting too cheeky, or she doesn't like the curtains I've got up, or that I've not tidied up to her standard... Even that I bought the chocolate biscuits DF doesn't like on occassion.

AIBU to want her to stop criticising? And AIBU to think an untidy house does not equate to child neglect?

Make yourself a Meanie Mum Bingo card for when she comes round next. One square for negative comments on your house, one for comments on your appearance, one for comments on your DS, etc., etc. Then mentally cross them off. If she excels herself you can shout 'house' and she'll wonder why you've got a big grin on your face.

My mother used to do this a lot. As time as gone by I have cared less and less about her opinion of what makes a home. My house is still untidy and her's is immaculate, and the world has not ended.

Periodically I make a joke about what she has said. "You haven't washed last night's dishes" leads to "No I haven't washed them for a month". "You could just run the hoover over when you have a spare 5 minutes" gets "Oh no that my online gambling time". You get the drift.

Mostly though I just ignore. To be honest she has got better with age, probably because I don't take any notice of her!

I came from a "shiny immaculate house" my favourite times were spent in a friend's slightly untidy but clean house (she had a very welcoming mother too). My parents never had a single photo of us up anywhere. My mother would be plumping cushions as the person got up etc etc. It really wasn't a great environment. OP just brush off the remarks, she's putting you down to make herself feel better.

You also mentioned that she does it to others which would indicate it's her problem not yours.

Is she maybe just from a different generation? (well du-uh ) But what I mean is, from an era where women were not expected to work, but instead were expected to keep a "good home" and do their wifely duties?

If yes, you could explain that your sex-life is as dirty as your living room!

nice one alps !
I really don't think social services have got Kim and Aggie on the team just yet. Also people who spend all day dusting and polishing and plumping cushions all day long are spending less time with their children.

A close friend of mine has exact same problem and though I think her parents should keep their beaks out - I am torn because I secretly think her house is a pig sty and I don't really like being there sitting amongst all the clutter and shit even if it isn't a health hazard.

Your MIL is just bloody rude.

I'm pretty sure my MIL thinks exactly the same things when she comes to my house, but is too polite to comment. She does have a good old bitch to me about SIL (her own DD) and how she lives in squalor, though.

OP my mum is a bit like this, although she hasn't raised the spectre of SS (yet!).

She always criticises. We see a lot of them and when I go up there with the kids she always say stuff when we arrive like "oh haven't you brushed their hair?" "why haven't you brushed your hair" "DDs trousers have a hole in them" "Why has't DD2 got a vest on" "They are hungry didn't you give them any breakfast" and so on and so on.

The fact of course is that I have brushed everyone's hair, a small hole in the trousers of a boisterous toddler is neither here nor there, it is not actually enshrined in law that children must wear vests, and they have had plenty of breakfast.

Of course I am always on the defensive and have learnt over the years just a simple rebuttal with a bright smile (they had a huge breakfast today!) or ignoring is the best. When I am not feeling at the top of my game I still feel got at though.

And I agree that there's a generation thing - it all seems to be about appearances with her - not whether people seem happy but whether they look smartly turned out. That is so alien to me - appearances just aren't that important. I just can't understand why it matters especially on young lively children.

I would tell her to say something nice or fuck off!

I think you should point out that SS would (theoretically) be more interested in a parent making constant negative comments to their child than where books are kept.

A 'few wires'may get a notice tbh. It is neglect if a child is living in a potentially harmful environment. A box of crayons and naff curtains don't count as harmful though. Mess is good anyway - shows you have other things to worry about than skirting boards- like maybe playing with your DC.

Maybe she'd like to come on a trip out with us sometime and see a house with human excrement on the floor? She might lay off you for a week

My mother made us live in a spotless palace. Not easy on farmland. Those sheep poops get everywhere...

She wasted alot of her life vacc'ing and tutting at us and scraping muck off our trainer soles and wellies. She never played games with us, read books and that type of thing. She missed out.

I live in a home that is clean cos we have a cleaner ( cheating I know) but at the end of each day there's clutter all the place except the kitchen surfaces - I am quite anal about that). It gets tidied or put in a pile....

My mother hisses and comments on my 'slovenly ways'. I cannot meet her expectations. But I can make time to have fun with my kids. I thankfully live 2 hrs from her so drop in visits don't occur.

Now my youngest sister who lives a 5 min drive from her arranges appointments for mother to visit them because of mother's tuts at her 'unclean home'. She won't let her drop in. And my sis has a lovely home.

I feel sorry for my mother.

Just to clarify, the "few wires" are a couple of ethernet cables and a spare scart lead, not connected to anything, and not traipsing across the floor. In fact, for DS to be walking where they are would be pretty odd.

Thanks everyone. Spent half of yesterday evening convinced I must be the worst mother in the world in her eyes, given all the comments over the past 3.5 years

My Mum is the exact same, our house was always immaculate, there were never any pictures of us anywhere and we weren't allowed to have friends in as the place was never "tidy enough".
I loved going to friends' houses where there was a bit of clutter about, where people lived instead of existed, where the Mum might shout a bit and there was always tea or something on the go, where visiters were welcomed.
The way we grew up has of course coloured how I am now, and I really think that the effort I put into things being perfect directly caused my PND. There wasn't anything good enough and so I wasn't a good enough mum...
Sadly, I have almost gone the opposite way, our house is messy (not dirty, just untidy) but because it's so engrained in me that the place is not "tidy enough" for visiters that dd never has friends over... I'm trying to change lots of things, be more tidy etc. Dd is happy though. She plays with her barbies and draws mostly, and I'm constantly finding a marker and colouring pencils down the sides of the couch, and barbie shoes under the tv and lego everywhere underfoot!

When my mum came to babysit for one night, I cleaned for 3 days in preparation, put all the clutter into my bedroom and locked the door- the place was perfect, far better than we usually have it. My mum still said that the insides of my windows weren't clean .
Sometimes, you just have to think that standards differ, and if you have found a level of balancing work, cleaning, living and oh yes, playing with your kids, I think that's better than those like my mum who constantly think of what other people would say about the mess and consequently never have anyone in....

To be honest of you have the strength I would be in the mind not to have her round until she has a change in attitude

Also what's your oh have to say about all this

No OH, maypole. If I don't have her round, I seem to become the worst DD to ever walk the planet. Can't do right for doing wrong, it seems.

Lynette, it's my DM, not DMil. I've escaped that torture...

Your house sounds so far from being any kind of hazard and much tidier than mine. However, the HV who runs our baby group was telling me that back in the mists of time midwives would inspect a new mum's toilet to see what kind of housewife and therefore mother she would be. Maybe your DM's toilet was so inspected, and this is partly where her attitude comes from?

Hope it's not too clean, it's bad for the child's developing immune system

hiding I could have written your exact OP, except that my dad wouldn't be bothered as he lives in a tip. I remember her crying she was so upset with the state of my house. I was 8 months pregnant with twins at the time, was not physically able to do a lot of stuff and OH was working all the hours under the sun. I basically told her if it upset her that much then she didn't have to stay, I was that fed up.

Last time she visited, despite being really quite ill with a virus, I spent a whole day cleaning and tidying the house. Apart from the toys and some clothes not put away (in our room) the house was spotless.

She cleaned out our cupboards while I went to Tesco I really wish she would back off.

To all you health visitors out there, what about people who just like to have a tidy house? It doesn't mean that kids aren't allowed to make a mess or that their parents don't play with them - it might just mean that they had a bit of a blitz before the HV turned up or that they put the toys away when the older dc are at school and there's just the newborn at home during the day.

I think it is wrong to think clean and tidy = red flag. Different people just have differing standards.

Well tbh I don't much like your curtains either!

Agree with karma that there is nothing sinister about a clean and tidy house, or a messy one.

An utterly minimalist house with no toys games, fun or anything for children at all in it might be a bit worrying, ditto a house that was at the point it might be dangerous or harbour nasties.

Karma

The HV was not on about normal clean and tidy but show house clean when you have kids "can" not "is" be a red flag to other problems.
Please don't take the post out of context.
No one is saying that people with nice tidy homes have problems.

We are talking extremes. When toys are bought but not allowed to be played with, when there are no signs of a child living in a home , that sort of extreme .
Of course everyone has different standards and different measures of acceptability.

toddles off to hoover the garden wall

I think I am a little sensitive, because I remember my HV visiting when I'd just had dc4 and remarking that my house was very clean. It's hard to convey tone, but it wasn't said in a good way. I felt I was being negatively judged because I value cleanliness in a home with a newborn. Now I know that she was looking for signs of PND, but I don't think it's a particularly good marker. My house was clean, because I had a helpful dh and mother, who knew I would like to have a nice house. My 3 older dc were at school, so their toys were tidied up. Had she visited me at 4pm she would have seen a different picture.

I think most people throw all the kids toys in a box etc when they have visitors over and don't like stepping on lego

thanks a bunch bats!