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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that Gordan Ramsey makes verbal abuse/intimidation seem acceptable?

48 replies

soggy14 · 14/09/2011 11:14

which of course it is not.

I picked this up from another thread but I thought that it was very true. Gordan Ramsey is often very verbally abusive, aggresive and intimidating on his TV shows. People watch him and think that it is okay to behave like that. We wouldn't see someone beating up their staff on TV and getting away with it so IMO having verbal abuse and aggression shown publically like this does make it harder to stop it happening.

See here for random example

OP posts:
Andrewofgg · 14/09/2011 11:23

So is Anne Robinson but the "victims" are publicity-seeking volunteers in both cases so shed no tears.

LDNmummy · 14/09/2011 11:27

I used to watch Hell's Kiotchen without a problem a few years ago and loved the one where he fixed up really bad restaurants and turned them around.

But about a week ago I watched a new episode of Hell's Kitchen USA and found that I couldn't tolerate all the abusive language directed at the participants anymore and switched over.

I think it has possibly gotten worse or maybe I have just gotten more sensitive to it. Either way YANBU.

LDNmummy · 14/09/2011 11:28

kitchen*

Original poster
soggy14 · 14/09/2011 11:28

am not sheeding tears for the "victims" Grin - just saying that for someone in a verbally abusive relationship, whose dp is claiming that their shouting/swearing is "normal" and that the abused person is over reacting, then seeing this sort of thing on the TV must make it harder to get the situation accepted as abuse.

OP posts:
EightiesChick · 14/09/2011 11:29

I think Gordon Ramsay is certainly a player in this but it's not led by him. As Andrew has already shown, there are plenty of other examples and it's pretty pervasive in our culture. I think Ramsay's quite a damaging example in the sense that he is playing the role as an angry boss who is always shown later to be doing it because he is passionate about food/the job, and has your best interests at heart really, so it can give the impression that bullying behavious often hides good intentions.

However, worse than Ramsay in other ways is the Simon Cowell approach of sneering put downs which invite the viewer to laugh at the no-hoper / arrogant little so-and-so on stage. I get more of an impression with Ramsay that he values hard work whereas Cowell often seems just to be playing favourites.

cakesandale · 14/09/2011 11:29

He doesn't make it seem acceptable to me.

He is a total arse and for that reason, I stopped watching him a LONG time ago. Can't stand the sight of him now.

notherdaynotherdollar · 14/09/2011 11:30

people will do anything to get their mugs on the telly

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 14/09/2011 11:31

I've often wondered at the 'sensitivity levels' of people who watch 'Mock the Week'. I think it's a horrible programme, offensive to so many people, but then so many seem to watch it... Confused

brandnewname · 14/09/2011 11:31

YANBU - watching Gordan Ramsey is like watching my dh and Hell's kitchen is one of dhs favourite shows :(
He thinks it is great and really enjoys the abusive bits (which I hate). It does make that kind of behaviour appear acceptable.

LeBOF · 14/09/2011 11:32

I don't think he makes it look acceptable really, no. He just makes himself look like a twat.

brandnewname · 14/09/2011 11:33

an angry boss who is always shown later to be doing it because he is passionate about food/the job, and has your best interests at heart really just like my dh who tells me to do this and that for my own good and because he cares :)

Don't know who Simon Cowell is Blush

ShirleyKnotFrotGrot · 14/09/2011 11:33

Jeremy Kyle.

worldgonecrazy · 14/09/2011 11:34

On a shallow level I agree with you. However, I also think that anyone with a modicum of intelligence will notice the passion that Gordon Ramsay has for getting the best out of people, and the loyalty of his staff (look at his restaurant staff turnover rate which is tiny compared to much of the catering industry).

mayorquimby · 14/09/2011 11:38

I think it's become a bit pantomine as of late but if you watch the old boiling point show you can see him being himself and still losing it, however without fail every one of the staff accept that he has only lost it with them when they've fucked up and deserved it.
I do however think the fact that he has only lost something like 9 staff throughout his career and the obvious loyalty that his cooks have to him shows that away from the cameras his outbursts may be more functional and focussed than the stage stuff of hells kitchen.

TotemPole · 14/09/2011 11:39

I spent some time working in and around kitchens, and most of the chefs shout and swear at the staff.

The staff have to get it right, they don't get the same second chances as in other professions. If the meal is wrong order/cold/under cooked/over cooked/1 hr late, the customer will remember that and in a lot of cases not go back.

Scholes34 · 14/09/2011 11:42

You'd never catch Mary Berry in The Great British Bake Off behaving in this way.

whatkatydidathome · 14/09/2011 11:44

However, I also think that anyone with a modicum of intelligence will notice the passion that Gordon Ramsay has for getting the best out of people, and the loyalty of his staff sorry but I think that this is appalling - would it be okay for a husband to talk to his wife like that (or wife to husband) as long as they were "passionate about the relationship and wanted the best for their partner"?

Seems that we are being a bit double standardy here. Abuse is abuse - whether it is good TV or not - and being in a job it is very similar to being in a relationship in tht you have all the financial dependancies.

No wonder people think that they can get away with verbally abusing partners when it is so acceptable on TV to verbally abuse right left and centre. Would we tolerate Gordan thumping his staff? If not then aren't we saying that verbal or emotional abuse is somehow "okay" and not so bad? Can actually be worse as so hidden.

TotemPole · 14/09/2011 11:45

I agree, I think the Gordon Ramsay(cough cough) we see on TV is him sort of playing a caricature of himself and other chefs.

whatkatydidathome · 14/09/2011 11:48

without fail every one of the staff accept that he has only lost it with them when they've fucked up and deserved it it gets worse!! I can't believe I am reading this - how many verbally abusive partners are saying that each time they scream...

most of the chefs shout and swear at the staff...The staff have to get it right so that makes verbal abuse okay does it? What about if the partner burns dinner or crashes the car? Can they be shouted as as long as they did something "really bad"?

mayorquimby · 14/09/2011 11:48

"I spent some time working in and around kitchens, and most of the chefs shout and swear at the staff.

The staff have to get it right, they don't get the same second chances as in other professions. If the meal is wrong order/cold/under cooked/over cooked/1 hr late, the customer will remember that and in a lot of cases not go back."

Something I've noticed as well from a brief time in the kitchens as a student. Now I'll accept others will say there are other ways to get it done and that this approach is a bull-shit macho hangover from the past, but it's still the reality of how a lot of kitchens work.
The thing which it always reminded me of was of being involved in a rugby or football match. Your whole team is reliant on you and the situation is completely based on time constraints, if you fuck up everyone suffers and unlike other jobs there isn't time to sit down and calmly discuss what is going wrong during service. Also it's very rare someone will be bollocked because they have messed up something due to lacking ability, it is always when they have messed up something which they have the ability to do correctly but have failed due to a lack of attention or communication.
As with sports when the game is done then that is the time when a manager/head chef can take the time to discuss the failings and see what can be done to make sure it doesn't happen again and for the most part the swearing/shouting is forgotten about and a more calm analysis takes place.

TotemPole · 14/09/2011 11:49

DA/DV and is against a specific individual. Gordon Ramsays 'verbal abuse' is for anyone in the kitchen who doesn't do their job well.

mayorquimby · 14/09/2011 11:49

"how many verbally abusive partners are saying that each time they scream"

Lots, but there's a completely different dynamic to an abusive partner than a boss who gives you a bollocking when you mess up.

TotemPole · 14/09/2011 11:54

mayorquimby, I totally agree with that comparison.

StuckUpTheFarawayTree · 14/09/2011 11:54

I think there are far better ways of getting the best out of people. In my opinion, he is a horrible, bullying arse... and for that reason, I'm out.

worldgonecrazy · 14/09/2011 11:58

Ditto to mayorquimby. We are talking about a boss here with people who choose to stay in a relationship with him, not because they have no other options - his staff could go to any restaurant of their choosing. To compare Gordon Ramsay's language with DV or DA is an insult to women who suffer DV/DA. It is a completely different situation with a different dynamic and a different reason behind the behaviour, and a different relationship between Gordon/employees and domestic abuser/abused.

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