Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Flip

1 2

Original poster

to think that Gordan Ramsey makes verbal abuse/intimidation seem acceptable?

48 replies

soggy14 · 14/09/2011 11:14

which of course it is not.

I picked this up from another thread but I thought that it was very true. Gordan Ramsey is often very verbally abusive, aggresive and intimidating on his TV shows. People watch him and think that it is okay to behave like that. We wouldn't see someone beating up their staff on TV and getting away with it so IMO having verbal abuse and aggression shown publically like this does make it harder to stop it happening.

See here for random example

OP posts:

TotemPole · 14/09/2011 12:01

Can they be shouted as as long as they did something "really bad"?

No, they have the time to talk about and to think how to say what they want to say.

Also, bear in mind a kitchen can be very noisy at busy times. Shouting can be necessary.

worldgonecrazy · 14/09/2011 12:01

I guess what I'm trying to say is Gordon's behaviour brings out the best in his staff and makes them feel that they are worthwhile, and worth his energy, that they can be better at their job, that they deserve to be the best that they can be.

A domestic abuser makes his victims feel worthless, that they are always wrong, that they can do no better, do not deserve better.

That is the difference.

brandnewname · 14/09/2011 12:02

To compare Gordon Ramsay's language with DV or DA is an insult to women who suffer DV/DA. It is a completely different situation with a different dynamic

and your average abusing partner realsies that do they and understands all about relationship dynamics? rather than just watching the show and assuming that because it is okay in reality TV then it is okay in reality?

Original poster

soggy14 · 14/09/2011 12:04

Gordon's behaviour brings out the best...A domestic abuser makes his victims feel worthless

I agree that it is different - I just think that the average emotional abuser probably does not think that deeply about the psycology behind relationships and could see GR on TV and think that this makes the behaviour acceptable - even admirable.

OP posts:

Morloth · 14/09/2011 12:10

Gordon Ramsey is a dickhead of the highest order.

Tenacity · 14/09/2011 12:12

Double standards on this thread, I wonder how many would tell/teach their kid that it's acceptable to behave the way Gordon Ramsay does??

mayorquimby · 14/09/2011 12:18

"and your average abusing partner realsies that do they and understands all about relationship dynamics? rather than just watching the show and assuming that because it is okay in reality TV then it is okay in reality?"

But this can be applied across the board to so many walks of life and genres within tv. in televised sport because people get criticised when they mess up? an abuser could justify his behaviour based on that. ban masterchef because poor cooking results in chastisement and elimination. That's an abusers dream.
I don't see what you are getting at. If you think that Ramseys behaviour is actually abusive and out of order, fine I may not agree with you but can see your logic. If your argument is that Ramsey/the shows producers have a responsibility for an abusive person misinterpreting the show as justifying DV/DA or the person being unable to recognise the differences in the relationships then I can't see your logic at all. Abusers will find any excuse or justification for their abuse but it will most likely be a post facto justification, it will not be their inspiration or the catalyst.
More than likely they will seek out certain unrelated traits in famous or admired people and form a tenuos link in their own mind which makes them believe that their own personality is to be admired or justified.
A guy who constantly berates his kids/wife who happens to be obsessed with football will focus in on some no nonsense task master, for example Alex Ferguson or Brian Clough, and in his own head make connections between the praise people heap on him for his tough love approach to young footballers at times and their winning mentalities. It doesn't mean that they have a responsibility due to some abusive dickheads interpretation of their professional personalities.

mayorquimby · 14/09/2011 12:21

"Gordon Ramsey is a dickhead of the highest order."

I'd agree. I think his 'matey' shtick with anyone he encounters (which normally involve references to weight or appearance) is far worse and worthy of chatisement then his shouting and yelling during services.

moronicatatonic · 14/09/2011 12:24

The X Factor is all about bullying, IMVHO. I mean the initial rounds of humiliating the sad, mad and hopeless. It's just a Roman circus.

So I'm saying it's all over the telly.

squeakytoy · 14/09/2011 12:26

If there was none of this behaviour by Ramsey, there would be no tv show. It is hammed up for the cameras, it isnt real.

BarmyBiscuit · 14/09/2011 12:50

Trust me, all those nice TV chefs you see behave like that in their kitchens. It's a pressured environment and all Gordon Ramsay is doing is being a chef.
Even the saintly Rick Stein has a temper on him when at work.

Original poster

soggy14 · 14/09/2011 13:51

what I'm getting at is that having TV shows which show celebraties/whatever being really verbally aggresive to people, or belittling people, can give the impression that it is okay to behave like that. Whether at work or in a relationship to me that kind of aggresive shouting is unacceptable and the world woudl be a better place if we all agreed that it was out of order.

OP posts:

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 14/09/2011 14:01

So.... we, the public majority, DO enjoy bullying then? As long as we're not on the end of it, we'll heckle and take pleasure in seeing others degraded and belittled just as long as there's a camera trained on them? Seems to be a winning formula.

Glad that's clear.

moronicatatonic · 14/09/2011 14:27

Yes, but remember there were people who resisted the Nazis, who were, in the end, defeated. We don't have to join in with it, or even go along with it, or turn a blind eye to it.

whatkatydidathome · 14/09/2011 14:34

So.... we, the public majority, DO enjoy bullying then
based on this thread we seem to - what is that teaching our children?

worldgonecrazy · 14/09/2011 14:39

I enjoy watching Gordon Ramsay because he gets people to be the best that they can be, not because he is a bully - which I don't agree he is anyway. It is nothing to do with watching or enjoying aggressive behaviour. We are all obviously interpreting his behaviour differently. The pro-GR group seeing it as frustration and wanting people to be better than they believe possible, the anti-GR group seeing it as bullying/belittling/pro DV behaviour. For that reason I don't think there can be any consensus on this thread.

My daughter doesn't watch TV, so it will not affect how she grows up. She does get to meet a few chefs though so no doubt she will form her own opinion of them over the years.

It would be more interesting to ask the questions around why people are willing to go on TV programmes such as the X Factor, knowing that they will be made fools of. Why are some people willing to appear in front of the panel knowing they have no talent?

Insomnia11 · 14/09/2011 14:42

I only watched his programmes a couple of times but was surprised as I didn't see any bullying. He had high standards but was constructively critical and didn't even raise his voice.

Insomnia11 · 14/09/2011 14:44

On the other hand about 30% of the chefs in the "professional kitchen" section on Masterchef come across as complete nobheads.

SardineQueen · 14/09/2011 14:57

Didn't he say that marco pierre white reduced him to tears when he was starting out? It seems to be a "thing" with this cheffy business - it's all very macho and shouty and sweary and all the rest of it. That approach will work well with some people and spur them on, but it might have a negative effect on others even if they are talented and not worth losing.

A good boss knows which staff will respond to being shouted at and which will respond to different methods and will use whichever one is right to get the best out of people.

I also think it sets a bad example - I have worked with men who used to be so horrible to staff at clients firms that they cried. How is that constructive? It isn't, it's shit. I don't think it's right in any workplace TBH. There are ways of doing things without the aggression.

Andrewofgg · 14/09/2011 15:09

BBC is about to broadcast a series following a cadre of Sandhurst cadets through their training. In the early weeks you will see them treated just like "other ranks" are treated. You may hear a Sergeant-Major say: I will call you Sir and you will call me Sir and the difference is that YOU WILL MEAN IT!.

And it is much less likely to be hammed up for the cameras than the reality kitchen stuff.

And that won't excuse any practitioner of DV/DA any more than the Gordon Ramsey show. Because you simply cannot draw analogies between a relationship which is supposed to be built on love and trust from one which is not.

whackamole · 14/09/2011 15:48

This is the reason I can't watch him. I think he is absolutely awful.

For the record, I also don't like Simon Cowell or Anne Robinson. I am just terribly naive in that I really don't understand why people can't be nice to each other.

TotemPole · 14/09/2011 17:02

They're deluded or in denial about their lack of talent.

Only the participants in the first series of these type of programmes could argue they had no idea what they were letting themselves in for. All those who've put themselves through it since know exactly what Simon Cowell/Gordon Ramsay/Anne Robinson are like, and what the reaction will be if they mess up.

DawnTiggaWeirdyBeardy · 14/09/2011 17:13

YANBU having been on the receiving end and giving as good as I got - not publicity seeking here as it wasn't for tv.

Can'tStandTheTwuntHisOnlySavingGraceIsHeDoesActuallyHaveAPassionForFoodTiggaxx

Flip

1 2