To think a school can't legally suddenly ban the headscarf for muslin girls!

[Headscarfs123]

So our local catholic school has banned the headscarf this week...disastrous for some of the girls but also against church advice that headscarfs are fine, against DFES advice about consultation and sensitivity to religious groups, against best practice as this type of change should involve the governing body? discriminatory on religious and sexist grounds...Sikh boys can keep their turbans.

Aibu to think that the school is legally in the wrong?

Serenity I am hard pushed to believe that you are actually unsure as to why I would recommend asking a muslim person about the reasons for wearing a headscarf, in relation to this debate, about muslim women wearing headscarves.

I think you are just being deliberately arsey.

The origins of the hijab is because the Koran asks, or the hadith or whatever, asks it's female followers to cover their 'ornaments' to protect men from lust/temptation. (this is a short version) So some Muslim women seek to be modest to please their maker, modest from who/by who is another issue. Some may claim it is not for men, but it's only men that they cover in front of.

Because it's nonsense- as I say what if she'd asked my ex boss?

But mainly because you are on an Internet forum, therefore it is a totally odd suggestion. If you can't engage with the poster you should just ignore them, not tell them to go off and talk to someone else.

NotJustKangaskhan, I see what you mean, but banning the actual religious symbol would be sufficient.
I don't actually care what people wear on their heads so if someone were to wear a flat cap and pretend in their heart it was a muslim headscarf or a turban that would be okay. Because it would only mean that to them and not be a means of announcing their affiliation.

In fact if it were truly only a convenient means to cover the hair modestly then any covering would be fine. Which leaves the inescapable truth that the point is to display it to other people and let them know which side you are on.

Thats not me *Riven you should be replying too- thats someone called cornflowers. Wrong poster.

Fanjo - stop shouting and stop resorting to silly - 'talk to a Muslim' tactics.

Eh? Stop resorting to silly "someone think of the children tactics!"

You aren't actually interested in the reasons why someone would choose to wear a headscarf. It is a perfectly logical thing that if you actually did want to know why someone would do so, you would ask them. Not ask me, who has told you several times, that I am not best placed to explain to you in depth the reasons, religious/cultural as they may be, why a headscarf is worn by some (thats for you serenity) muslim women.

It's really hard to discuss this without sounding like a bigot....however hard I try.

*Because it's nonsense- as I say what if she'd asked my ex boss?

But mainly because you are on an Internet forum, therefore it is a totally odd suggestion. If you can't engage with the poster you should just ignore them, not tell them to go off and talk to someone else.*

It's not nonsense, it's perfectly logical. I am engaging perfectly well with the poster, and giving a helpful suggestion as to where they can find the answer they are looking for.

Fanjo - I am speaking to the women on this thread - and if you're not best placed to answer questions or join in the debate - don't.

And yes - I'm asking just that - what's best for the children here!

Ok, I perfectly logically asked someone and she said in her country it was poor uneducated village girls who had to cover their heads. So now Animation knows why women cover their heads- an actual Muslim woman told her! So where do we go now with this knowledge?

Covering the head in modern Islam is a culturally determined sporadic fashion of some kind. Calling it irrelevant is risible imo!
It's a massively powerful statement of difference, I would say it's an aggressive cultural statement.
I don't see why Muslims can't be fully British and respect our culture and integrate properly and fully?
Why not?
Many Muslims do so and don't stop being Muslims in their own opinion.
Women in this European culture died for the vote.

We are equal.
Covering the head marks women and young girls as different and inferior in a paternalistic male dominated culture (I lived in Pakistan for six months so I'm relatively familiar with the glories and the hypocrisies of a Muslim country, and they are not greater or lesser than in this culture/country).
Why defend it?
It's so weird imo, it's like slaves blessing their chains, it's just extraordinary to me.

I have no problem with Muslim women covering their heads in Muslim states, that's their business. But I do if I'm honest agree with the French. If you live here you need to show some respect to this culture which welcomes you.
As I showed when I lived in Pakistan - I covered my head when it was appropriate and wore shalvar kamiz. I don't here because that is not our culture.

Fanjo - I am speaking to the women on this thread - and if you're not best placed to answer questions or join in the debate - don't.

And yes - I'm asking just that - what's best for the children here!

I have debated perfectly reasonably with you, and at least I am willing to say if I don't have all the facts, which you aren't.

Have you asked these poor poor children their opinions? Have you asked these poor poor women their opinions? If not, how are you in a position to decide what's right or wrong or how they feel about it or anything at all to do with it?

serenity grow up.

God help you should actually ask those involved FFS what a stupid suggestion

BTW I am a fucking woman.

MrsZ As I said last time you posted, women covering their hair was part of British fashion until an American fashion came in and replaced it. The same arguments of 'respecting British culture' were made then and are now behind us so that most women don't cover their hair. And many of those that do, do so for non-religious reasons. You are only talking about one type of head covering, but making it sound like it covers them all.

Are you going to tell old ladies who cover their hair to protect it from the wind and rain that they aren't fully British and respecting British culture?

In many Muslim states women stopped covering their heads for a long time and this coincided with greater emancipation.
Head covering in Muslim states seems to have accompanied fewer freedoms for Muslim women not more.

I mean in Saudi Arabia a woman needs her brother or relative's permission to buy a plane ticket.

Wonderful! She's a chattel. Why celebrate the symbolic donning of chattel status. We are not inferior in our culture - why can't that be something that is respected by incoming cultures? Why can't in coming cultures make this sacrifice if they love this country?
Just a thought!

Well there you go fanJob- rivens post above points out how useless your suggestion would be. But I'm sure you will continue to Suggest it so best just leave it there.

Mrszimmerman- fantastic post

Fanjo - I have talked to lots of people on all sides outside this thread - and that's how I have formed my opinions.

WTAF? Asking the culture concerned why they do a certain thing is useless?? Oh the ignorance. If i ever want to know anything about muslims I'll be sure not to ask my muslim friends then.

Are you being deliberatly obtuse? You do understand your Muslim friend might not know very much about Islam, surely?