To think a school can't legally suddenly ban the headscarf for muslin girls!

[Headscarfs123]

So our local catholic school has banned the headscarf this week...disastrous for some of the girls but also against church advice that headscarfs are fine, against DFES advice about consultation and sensitivity to religious groups, against best practice as this type of change should involve the governing body? discriminatory on religious and sexist grounds...Sikh boys can keep their turbans.

Aibu to think that the school is legally in the wrong?

Riven

Thanks for answering more fully. That's what I was after.

I am an agnostic. I welcome banning religious attributes of any form: headscarves, crosses, face and hand marking of any kind, the list goes on.

Shame it won't happen in this country.

I'm not sure we can talk about supposed Muslim countries and compare them to more forward thinking Muslims in the West, countries where women are stoned to death for being raped are hardly the sort of places that we would ever want to be like.

We have to think about the hijab within this country and what it means for all of us, cohesion being the most (above individual's right to practice faith) important thing for society to run smoothly. Prejudice against religion aside, the hijab (or any religious attire) instantly pigeon holes people, therefore to some Muslims non hijab wearing girls would also be instantly judged. I'm not sure that school is the place for religious expression, tbh. I'm not sure we should be encouraging our young minds to be brainwashed into any religion. But then if I believed in God I may think it beyond belief to not share that with my child.

It's a tricky one.

Er ok, so people who follow or copy the cultures of other countries can't be indoctrined purely because they live in the uk? Because that is clearly rubbish

pmsl at people who don't know Muslims. I have lived in the most multi cultural and integated parts of the uk and went to a uni which was 60% muslim. However, i'll mention it again- a head scarf has nothing to do with Religion.

bemybebe But head-covering isn't always done for religious reasons. Older women tend to do it because they were raised to do so to protect their hair. Some people choose to do so when they have a medical condition which causes hair loss or other scalp/hair issues. Some do it as a stand against the fashion industry. It would be very hard to police them (and that's before we get into wearing wigs for religious reasons).

"If you dont like a countrries laws, dont live there"

You are missing the point utterly.

We were perfectly happy to adpot the Muslim way of life- we choose to be there after all. We had a wonderful time.

Perhaps I am different as I lived in 4 different countries but I largely think if you want to be in a different culture you embrace that culture and adapt. Not call it 'racist' if it doesn't mirror your own.

Though I find it a bit sick Riveninabingle you think it's fine to tell a Westerner to get out of country if they don't like it. How is that any better to telling a Muslim to leave a country if they don't like it.

Double standards.

notjust I made the point in the context of the question - ie the school enviroment. sorry, it was not very clear.

Serenity - How can you say a headscarf has nothing to do with religion? The reason most people wear them are due to rulings derived from the Quran and Hadith.

General note: There are 1 billion Muslims worldwide. Saudi contains only a fraction of the world's Muslims, so using their government's behaviour to justify ill treating Muslims in this country is utterly wrong-headed.

"Because that particular country was clearly undemocratic."

It has nothing to do with democracy and everything to do with liberalism.

Coco, I think the point is that a multicultural society tends to be more tolerant than a monocutural one; that is to say that the monocultural Muslim countries you lived in are not something to aspire to or imitate.

First 'muslim' isnt a homogenous group of one nationality.

And I said that where?

Second, if someone bitched and complained about life in this country, whatever their nationality or religion then yes, I'd suggest they might be happier elsewhere. I emigrated to the US once. I disliked it. So I left. I didnt stay and bitch and insist they became English.First 'muslim' isnt a homogenous group of one nationality. Second, if someone bitched and complained about life in this country, whatever their nationality or religion then yes, I'd suggest they might be happier elsewhere. I emigrated to the US once. I disliked it. So I left. I didnt stay and bitch and insist they became English.

So then will you be telling the girls who want to keep their scarves to leave the country then I assume?

I'm afraid they'd be wrong; a headscarf is a cultural item of clothing. You could argue it helps preserve modesty (womens only of couse! Mens hair isn't offensive) but then so does a binliner.

NotJustKangaskhan, It wouldn't be hard at all to ban headscarfs. We already police what people can wear.

Put a mask on and walk in your local bank and see what happens. Then when the police let you out try it again naked. Then when you get out on bail try it once more wearing a swastika.

There are all kinds of rules about clothing already and while I think some of them are over the top, they are about people imposing on the freedoms/sensibilities of those around them.

Society is about giving up some freedoms in order to avoid infringing on other people's. It's a question of balance and often we get it wrong. But the idea that any one person or group should be totally free is unreasonable.

*No I haven't said religion itself is meaningless and illogical. But to say a child wears a scalf for religious reasons??

What does that mean?

Religious reasons?

What reasons are they?

Can you say more?

That is what I am asking.'Religious reasons' sounds very vague and meaningless without some explanation behind what you say?*

Shall I repeat myself?

Have you got any muslim friends or colleagues who can explain to you in depth the cultural/religious reasons they may wear a headscarf? As I am not a muslim I am not best placed to do so.

If someone says to you they wear something for religious/cultural reasons, you have the ability to ask them about it. There is no law that says you can't ask questions.

You are showing lack of respect for religion by declaring it meaningless and illogical as an explanation for wearing something. It just shows up your ignorance.

Serenity

I think you get a lot of defensiveness on this subject - and just breaking through the defensiveness is half the battle.

I want to share perspectives on this - as a mother of 3.

It seems men have dictated how children dress their heads.

I think there ARE practical reasons why children should stop wearing scalves.

If any women here agree with me, it would be a case of presenting the practical disadvantages to the men in authority - as a way forward - to free children of what I think is cumbersome attire.

onagar swastika is not banned in this country. someone may spit on the wearer to express their disgust but it is not an offence

People are very naive thinking a Muslim was monoculture and regular stonings.This was some years ago now too.

In the country I lived in there was a HUGE number or expats from the UK, Amercia, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Ireland, China and so... they had international schools, communties largely formed where us immigrants would live together.

The country still had its Westernised shops and eating establishments. They still welcomed us.

However all of us happily recognised we were in their country so had respect ultimately what was their way. We did not expect the country to change for us. Though intrestingly enough it has vastly changed to a far more Westernised country now

Fasninating though that people call the UK "racist" if they expect others to adapt to their culture in healthy measure but vice versa ...double standards and a strange psychology behind this thinking.

"You are showing lack of respect for religion by declaring it meaningless and illogical as an explanation for wearing something. It just shows up your ignorance."

You still won't give me any explanations BEHIND the Religious reasons. Fill it out a bit.

Try not to turn it back on me. This is just a debate.

a school is a closed world with its own rules.

But it shouldn't be. It should be following the laws of the land and not obeying some god who wasn't even elected.

I'm arguing for both sides here. I want our democratically elected government to pass a law that religion and its symbols be kept out of our schools.

At the same time I'm disturbed that anyone would think it was okay for a particular religion to impose this rule to discriminate against children whose parents happen to follow a different religion. There is rarely an option to go to a different school.