To miss at least half my qualifications (especially the highest) off an application for a job?

[Shakti]

Ok, is it?

Many of the young guys we have on our programme stick with the labouring in the hope of going into a trade- many grads do not want to go down that route.

I would agree that the turnover in cleaning is probably high, but what I have noticed is that many just move from contract to contract, but stay in cleaning. For example of the candidates I saw today, all had previous cleaning experience, mostly doing agency work. Some had been cleaners, then moved into production line/ packing work, now that has dried up back into cleaning. I actually would find it morally quite difficult picking a bright grad over some of the people I saw today as I would feel that the person with no qualifications was more deserving of the break. I know that seems unfair to graduates but at the end of the day, none of the candidates I saw today could go and work in admin or on a till or on a reception desk, so their options really are few and far between.

you're kinda saying two different things now.

1. grads sod off on menial jobs more than non grads

or

1. morally you want to give non grads a break

If you genuinely experience 1 to be true that's fair enough, but re. 2, one likes to think the best person for the job gets it (and if that's the non grad because of 1. or because of past experience, then fine!). Menial jobs matter, other things can't function without them, so IMO the person who can do it best should get it, not who is deemed to need it most.

I've torn my hair out trying to explain basic infection control to contract cleaners, Its REEEEEALY important that they grasp it (lots dont and do terrible things!). I'ld hate to think there were people more capable of the job at interview/application stage and there wasn't anyone better willing to do it, NOT that someone figured they needed a break most. Same if it came to labourers working on my home.

Is that really selfish and horrible of me?

The point is...these particular 'menial' jobs will be stimulating, never boring and give me an opportunity to meet all sorts of people, albeit those that have something in common that I have enormous respect for. Of course I will not just walk off, well not until I really need more money and someone offers me a job paying more

I honestly reckon I am as good a bet as those without academic qualifications, it appears though that others do not think the same. I would stress again - I am not even getting the interviews ... and my latest incarnation of a specifically written CV has been checked by many and I have used that as a basis for application forms.

I do not think this is a huge conspiracy against Graduates, but it appears it is a prejudice that is wide spread to think that being (on paper) over qualified means you will be a short term, bored and listless employee.

I am getting cross now - forms are (so called) ethnically blind, and many gender blind. Do you think there is a place for being academic blind?

Shakti- in what way do you think cleaning up a council estate stairwell that someone has urinated or been sick all over, in the winter, will be 'stimulating'??

Or alternatively, doing back breaking work for 8 hours a day, sorting rubbish into plastics and glass to be recycled for minimum wage, will be worth sticking at?

Yes, of course you could do it, however, as soon as something better comes up you will be off. And that is the judgement call employers have to make when choosing who to employ.

Grumple- I don't think you are being selfish. Like I say- we didn't get any grads or anyone with any decent qualifications even apply for the cleaning jobs, despite record numbers of unemployed, and the fact we were offering additional training like First Aid training and to help the applicants upskill if desired.

I was not being facetious, at the moment I am applying for a particular job, in my industry (so arguably qualifications are relevant) that I personally will enjoy.

I don't really want to name change - but a closeish example would be a nurse consultant applying for a role as a junior staff nurse. She simply won't get the interviews although knows she would make a pretty good go of the job. No that is not conceit, actually if this was my kind of thing I would be saying that for reasons outside of this discussion I might not be a good bet as a Nurse manager!

You are perfectly reasonable, I'm tempted to do the same but then I'd have to account for about 12 'empty years' - my eldest is only 8.

I have, since I stopped being so picky with who I applied to, been turned down by all the major supermarkets (and actually said I'd do 'any' hours at all and was available 24/7 - which seriously isn't the case!) and from )argh!) McFuckinDonalds... I mean... HOW RUDE!!!

I would suggest OP that you're more than able to do many jobs, but no one wants to take that gamble, if they see you as more qualified/clever than them, they won't want you, but I also REALLY hate the idea of dumbing down, because after 10 minutes they'll know you're a smart woman.

I'm in the process of getting onto an agency's books, I don't particularly want an office job, or to be a temp, but its something current that I can fit into the hours I want.... if I find a 'nice' company, its easy to get a job once you're inside than to send CV's that will end up in the bin.

Good luck, its soul destroying, hopefully this time next year we'll both have jobs that we've got honestly, with employers that aren't stupid.

Most people I've ever met only stick with a menial job because they either like it, or haven't found anything better. Regardless of qualifications.

Fact is that employers of these kind of jobs would tend to prefer an unqualified, uneducated staff member because they have less choice and therefore will stay longer. But McDonalds????? Seriously??? I honestly don't mind serving up those horrible twatting fries on a graveyard shift for a few months, and that no worse than any other a level student who works there.

I need the cash, I need to work, I've done my time with my pre-schoolers, I am not on benefits, I'm educated(ish) I'll put in a fair day's work for a fair day's pay.... surely as grumple says, it should be about whether I can do the job, not whether I'm needy enough?

This is work we're talking about, not charity.

Aldi - ta!!!!

Haha, you got me into rant mode..., I HATE talking about my failed jobsearchg... its embarrassing. But once I start.......

While I'm sympathetic to unemployed graduates, the fact is that many, many jobs today require a degree, which 20 or 30 years ago only required a bit of common sense. (You even need special training to work behind a sodding bar!) So it seems a bit unfair to the non-degreed to have graduates chasing what few jobs are left... :(

in a lot of grad jobs, a batchellors degree is not enough anyway.

so a grad with "just" a batchellors, no post grad stuff, and no work experience, is unlikely to get a graduate job as someone with no degree (depending on the field, its more the case in some than others) so why should they leave the other jobs and starve so the non grads can do them?

I think that 'over qualified' is just an excuse-I bet it doesn't make any difference.

It does. I know from experience and requested feedback, and from people I know who've turned people down that are overqualified... it seems to scare people. Usually people who've worked their way up. That route is closed to many now.

There should be room for both kinds of progression.

If they interview you they will know that you are over qualified-unless you deliberately play things down and don't do your best.

I think it does. In my last role, there was a backlash against hiring grads as PA's because the retention was noticeably worse than non-grads who tended to look at it as a career rather than a stop-gap and only stayed till something better came along. Also, the grad PA's weren't any better at it than people who'd left school at 16 or 18.

Aldiwhore You're kind of making the point about overqualified employees not being the best employees. You would despise working in McDonalds and that would probably be quite apparent. For many other people, McDonalds is a brilliant job. It's clean. It's warm. There's customer interaction. You get a free meal and proper breaks. There is career progression. Compare and contrast with cleaning/ working at the corporation tip/ factory work, and you can see why McDonalds might be popular.

Being a grad isn't just something that happens to people at random, they invest three years (usually) of their lives working towards an academic qualification when they could have been working.

I can see why an employer would choose a candidate with the most relevant experience, but it seems completely unfair to dismiss a qualified candidate on the basis that they have other options. Surely people should be rewarded for investing in their education?

My DS found that the main problem was that they didn't let him work his way up (his intention)...............the reason being he was overqualified and wouldn't stay............self fulfilling because he then had to get on by going elsewhere. He would however have been prepared to work his way up.

TheBride, you're right I would hate it... but I would button my lip and get my head down to work just to BE in work.

Most jobs are graduate jobs?? I couldn't find one of those when I graduated! With so many people graduating, its also fiercely competitive, and my degree, though interesting, isn't a career route degree (my choice, my fault) I just want a job. I've gone through the phone book sending my CV off, I've turned up on the doorstep so they can SEE me. Fact is, getting to interview, having that chance to answer any concerns, is difficult. I haven't had an interview yet... I have now tweaked my CV, missed some things off, so it looks more targeted, but I feel dishonest.

Theonly place that's LOOKED at my CV has been the agencies. Its hard for everyone, and I think that everyone deserves a chance. (especially MEEEEE!)

Okay I'm whining now aren't I? I'd probably be in the same position if I were less qualified, I don't think many people quite believe how few jobs there are out there. I didn't til I started looking!

YANBU.

I didn't and now wish I had.

I have just not even got an interview for a shop job (to fit in with DD) because I am too qualified.

I've never not got an interview before :)

YANBU, sadly. It's scary. I started to look for a job over the summer. Where I live, Asda is the major employer and jobs there are fought over (seriously.) It's so competitive that you're only considered if you've got proven shelf stacking or till experience. I didn't even bother applying there.

Jobs in clothes shops are also ridiculously hard to get, and it drives me mad as I know I'd do a better job than half the indifferent staff in these places.

BLoody hell, how freaky is this. Literally as I was typing the above, my mobile rang and I've been offered a job in a big local office... slightly in

I once applied for a job as a post man and was rejected as overqualified (Degree) I had to do aptitude tests which were dead easy and scored 100%. I think the interviewer was scared taking on someone more qualified than them. I was really disappointed - I would have loved to do that job.

No problem - you tailor your application to meet the needs of the employer and the job

I totally see where you are coming from OP. I really wish I could turn the clock back and not go to University at all. That is how much I regret spending time and money doing a degree. Based on my job hunting I am so shit I am completely unemployable. Sometimes death seems a better option.

Congratulations carly

the thing is the situation you were in when you did a degree at 18 is not necessarily the same as when you are in your forties for example. i.e. you're not looking for the same type of job.

there is IMO a difference between:

Writing a cv in such a way as to highlight the qualifications/skills you have that are relevant to the position you are applying for.

and

Deliberately lying on an application form when full information has explicitly been requested - thus not disclosing.

The former is perfectly acceptable, IMO, the latter is not.

I absolutely see why you would not put certain qualifications/employment details on a cv for jobs that do not require those qualifications. Apart from anything else, in the current market employers are often left having to sift through countless numbers of CV's, so the more irrelevant qualifications you have, the less time the sifter is likely to spend on your cv because they will have enough with relevant quals/experience.

But I think that if the questions are asked then you should disclose. It's not something that is likely to be found out, but it's still non-disclosure, and should an employer find out then you would be less likely to have a chance...

I have a slightly different albeit similar issue - I am currently applying for jobs, but I am visually impaired. Now, being VI shouldn't make a difference to my employability, but it does. People shouldn't be allowed to discriminate, but they do. The line I take is that if the question isn't asked, then I don't tell. They don't actually need to know after all, and if I get to interview stage then I explain about accessibility, etc. But if the form asks, then I do always disclose, because I think that not doing so will put me in a worse light. I think that's fine.