to not want my DC to be smart but miserable?

[dreamingbohemian]

Spent some time with a good friend of mine, we have toddler DC close in age to each other.

My friend is not only stricter than I am, but also sort of constantly teaching her DD things or 'quizzing' her (e.g. 'Oh look, there's a dog, D-O-G, what sound does a dog make?')

Her DD does seem very clever, and can be very sweet, but she also seems rather, well, unhappy most of the time (grumpy, whingy, clingy). I think partly it's that she's tired (she doesn't get to nap when she wants), and perhaps also because of some other preferences my friend has (for example, she doesn't want her DD to get too attached to things and pick up bad habits, so she was never allowed a dummy and isn't allowed now to carry around her favourite plush toy too often).

I would appreciate some advice because I find myself caught between wanting to be more like my friend (I'm a bit of a slacker) but not wanting my boy to be smart or well-behaved at the expense of being happy. So far he is a very sweet and easygoing boy, obviously sometimes he will have to be unhappy (e.g. if he is misbehaving and has to be punished) but I would hate that to become his default demeanor.

AIBU to think happy kids are more likely to be well-behaved anyway?

AIBU to think the advantages of being intelligent can be wiped out by being unhappy?

I thought I knew what I was doing but now I'm not so sure...

Hi just read this all and wanted to say it sounds like you are keen to make sure your little one isn't missing out somehow from a laid back style? I have also been in this situation with a friend (who has recently starting quizzing my toddler which drives me mad!)

The thing is, I've also trained in early years education, and it helps, because I sometimes feel the same as you. But, I just remember that for young children it's best to follow their lead, and let them play. So, if your child points to the sun and seems interested you could tell her about it. Extend their language by building on what they say rather than sitting down with flashcards. (So they say brum car..you say yes here it comes, a fast car or add on some kind of description) Let them play freely with open ended things like playdough, sand, mud, be outside, have books around for your child to bring to you, and perhaps have a little time (not set time) but just make a cosy corner for you both to sit and chill out together, do puzzles/reading your child brings to you. If you follow your child you can't go wrong. You could even provide them with things like magnet letters for the fridge to play with, paints, crayons, but not direct too much if you just put them in their room they'll be keen to show you. And don't worry too much about the laid back childhood and replicating that. Sometimes we overcompensate for these things. You're aware of it which is good, but remember you're different. Hope all this didn't sound too much like instruction. Just I understand as feel the same myself at times and having done that training helps me feel more confident about it. I would recommend a book called "The Excellence of Play" by Janet Moyles which although is for early years teachers is very interesting and is only 1p on Amazon.

slacker here too, with a 16 month old, Also early years trained and I think let them be children. I think ds will learn so much more by doing things and just taking things in. If he's happy then he is more likely to be taking things in rather than worry about being whingh/clingy. Do what you think is best, but children have years to learn D.O.G

We've just always followed ds lead. He is nearly five and big into dinosaurs, so we rent out books from the library and read them to him, when he gets bored we stop reading. That kind of thing. He loves to learn now at this age, he often says he wants to learn everything in the world! So we answer his questions, if we can't we'll get a book out on it and read it to him, but we don't pressurise him at all. That way we feel he is learning loads but doesn't feel we need him to be super smart or else we'll be disapointed.

Friedtomatoes how annoying that your friend started quizzing your child too. Sounds like an ultimate competitive mum.

OP, being brutally honest here, your friend does sound irritating and I would ditch her. I really can't stand pushy parents that are constantly trying to teach their children things and make a big public song and dance about it all. Does she try to compare your children? I am wondering if this is the case as it seems to have got you down.

An ex-friend of mine constantly did this about our boys, very passive aggresively, lots of "Oh dear, can't you do X yet?" comments directed at my son. She was always talking loudly "Oooh look, a duck, how do we spell that? And what colour is it?" etc etc, presumably thinking everyone was thinking "What a wonderful mother" when they probably thought she was a pretentious idiot. I think there is a fine line between an interested parent teaching their child things and a pushy, loud parent who is doing it all for everyone else to hear!

I chat to my DD, asking questions etc. I hope no-one thinks I'm a pretentious idiot because of it! I'm not doing it for everyone else to hear, I'm doing it for her bened

Bah, posted to soon, oops.

Her benefit... And because if I don't chat with her, she would talk and talk and talk!

Oh thank you -- this is all so reassuring!! Really great advice here. I will definitely check out that book as well, Fried, thanks

I think I am following DS' lead and it's felt right thus far, I guess I just had my confidence shaken a bit. He really likes to just sort of potter about and explore things on his own; he's very interested in things but seems to want to figure out how they work himself. He will show me things or bring them to me but when I start to explain anything he usually wanders off pretty quickly! I thought this was okay but when I saw my friend I thought, hmm, maybe I should be more assertive about it, for his own good.

Most of the time I think I'm doing what's best for him, but sometimes I worry that I'm just lazy

But, he does seem pretty happy -- and like you say, griphook, I hope that will make him more likely to absorb things.

I'm also stocking up on dinosaur books Little kids obsessed with dinosaurs are the cutest thing!

I'm guilty of this constantly teaching/quizzing lark. Thought it was the normal way of communication with a toddler. Surprised to read it is seen to be competitive or something which would make the child unhappy.

If the child is not allowed to nap when she is tired, is refused her comfort objects, and exposed to her mother's overweening anxiety in the form of too much formal teaching too early, then she is probably going to show the results in the form of the whiny, clingy behaviour her mother probably thinks she will prevent by forcing her to leave baby ways behind.

Whether she is intelligent or not is beside the point and it will not be the factor that makes her happy or unhappy. That is in the hands of her mother, sadly. Her life right now is all about her mother and her mother's image of herself, nothing to do with her and her needs.

Purple I love brutal honesty, ta

I don't think my friend is trying to be competitive with me, per se, but most of her mum circle are indeed very competitive from what I can tell, and so I think perhaps this is just what she is used to. It wasn't really so noticeable when our kids were younger but it's becoming more apparent now. I don't want to ditch her, she's great fun and I adore her, I think I just need to be more confident in what I'm doing and not worry about what she does.

Zonked, don't worry, I think people can tell the difference between someone chatting back and forth with their DC, versus someone chatting constantly at their DC.

Widow, my friend would think it's normal too! Maybe it is, I don't know. For me, I don't think it would bother me so much if they were a bit older, but they're only 16-17 months. I feel like if I tried to quiz my boy all the time he wouldn't understand and it would just make him cranky.

Math, I think there's a lot to what you're saying. I know my friend has her reasons for everything she does, and they are all ostensibly for her child's own good (obviously). That's sort of why I started this thread, because I was really struck by how different our approaches are, and wondering if I was being too soft or something.

Hmm, I think there;s no need to feel intimidated by your friend's approach. She's doing it differently to you, but that doesn't mean that either of you is in the wrong.

I've started "quizzing" my daughter pretty much from the beginning, not really doing spelling, but more counting, colours, shapes, what noise does it make, what does mummy say, what does daddy say (she's bilingual). She's hugely enjoying this type of conversation and always has and that's why I'm sticking to doing it. I always thought that that's what probably all parents do in one form or another.

If your child doesn't enjoy it, fair enough. Not every child enjoys the same thing. I don't think that this type of questioning conversation is putting pressure on or is a way of leading to a child's unhappiness.

The thing is, every parent will always be insecure about their parenting sometimes. Seeing how people do it differently makes you compare automatically. But it doesn't mean that your friend's way is better or that your way is better, or that one way or the other would neccessarily be better at producing happy children.

If you're not sure whether you're doing right, you should first look at your child and see whether you think your son is a) happy and b) gets all the stimulation and conversation he wants. From what you describe he is. There's no need to compare with your friend's daughter.

Whether her unhappiness is a result of the quizzing or the strictness or anything I can't tell from your post. Some children are whinier by nature, some aren't.

I think it's one thing to converse with your child, and talk to them about things, but I think what made my "friend" look a bit of an idiot was that she did/does it so loudly and looks round all the time to make sure someone is looking. Things like singing very very loudly indeed to her son in a foreign language in the ball pool, so that everyone turned and looked at her. Saying "Clever boy, you don't need a highchair do you?" over and over again very loudly whilst eating in a cafe. And just generally making everyone aware of her "wonderful parenting". We once went for a walk at a woodland adventure place and every single person that walked past us she would try to involve in interaction with her son. Her son was just sitting in the buggy, very quietly (the boys were 1 then), and she would say "LOOK X, that man's got a RED jacket on!" and point to him or "Oh woof woof, look at this big DOGGY, do you want to stroke him?" to her son, rather than just general chit chat as she pushed him along. It was quite bizarre and actually quite cringeworthy to be with someone behaving like that. Hence her ex-friend title...

Purplegirlie, that's not that different to what I do, though it's definitely not for everyone to think I'm a great parent, in fact I'm quieter when other people are around. I'm not trying to be pushy, but I comment on dogs, on cars, etc. My DD is great with colours and loves telling us! When she was a little younger, she loved animal noises etc. I tend to talk about whatever she's "into" at the time.

I don't see anything wrong in teaching by stealth this way, though I'm not a flashcard type person and I hope I'm not pushy at all. But DD seems happy and bright and chatty. Ok, she's 2, not 1 like your example, but really, what is wrong in pointing out a red jacket etc?

I can only assume there were other issues with this ex friend too.

OP, don't worry about it, it's just a different style, if you have your children's happiness at heart, I think that's the most important thing. Whether they can read at 3 is irrelevant really.

Zonkedout, you've just said yourself that you're quieter when others are around. The ex friend I am talking about is very loud and I mean loud, so loud that it's obvious it is for others' benefit. Surely you don't do the stopping random people that walk past you to include them in your DD's learning, do you?

Just seen your question, there's nothing wrong in pointing out a red jacket, but I think it's very odd indeed to comment on everyone walking past. I know if I was walking along wearing a red jacket with my children, or whatever, I wouldn't want to be constantly stopped by pushy parents wanting me involved in their little darling's "learning".

I guess people are either a "look at me" type parent or they're not one, I'm not that way by nature but fortunately my children have all managed to do extremely well without me being like that. Or maybe that is the type of teaching some children need otherwise they wouldn't learn anything, maybe it's because my children aren't like that that I haven't needed to be like that, who knows!

I don't stop people, no, though some do stop - particularly ones with dogs. DD often points out dogs herself. My Mum said that when i was little, she didn't really talk too much to me, she didn't really know how, and I didn't really talk much until I was 3. So I chat to my DDs, even as babies, including pointing things/people out. DD1 is now very good at talking, so I suppose it worked for her. But I guess I'm now worrying that I take it too far, and other people will think I'm being pushy.

I know I shouldn't care what other people think, but that's easier said than done!

I'd be the one singing in a foreign language in the ball pool then. Not at the top of my voice mind, and not for anyone's benefit but my daughter's.

I think your objections say more about yourself than your ex-friend.

What do my objections say about me, Widow?

Your friend's style of questioning contradicts all advice on improving vocab etc. Just do your own thing and leave her to grill her child (commenting far better)

What's her dd like communication wise. I just ask because I find I very easy slip into firing questions at ds1 because he can't talk and quich answer response with predictable answers (that I understand despite lack of speech) is a way to get communicating. It's not good though and if i catch myself doing iti try to reign myself in. If her dd is a bit delayed a communication she may have slipped into it without realising (but for gid's sake don't tell her if that is the case!)

you can be intelligent and happy and well behaved and not have a tummy and not have a special soft toy.

there is of course two extreems - being extra controlling and pushing a child too hard accademically - then also being so slack the child recieves no support and doesn't fulfil his potential. the happy balance is where you support them and learning is fun.

You need a balance. Most intelligent adults though do say to their toddlers things like how many stairs are here - one to three four... I think it helps.

Also children differ hugely in how they are born. Our second was reading at three. Our first was struggling so much at 6 she stayed down a year (she was a year young in the class anyway). They are both in their 20s doing pretty well in a similar City career. It didn't matter at all that one was more advanced than the other at 3. On the other hand they were both exposed to words so I suppose even a sil ent child who is a slower learner is taking things in if exposed to those things whereas one not so exposed is not soaking anything up.

Children love having happy parents so don't neglect your own views and feelings too.

I think that most people do a sort of unconscious 'teaching' with small children.

You just offer a running commentary as you do things,
'Get your shoe...Yes. that's right, how many shoes? One two shoes! Do the shoes go on your head? Noooo, on your feet! Where are your feet'.........ad infinitum.

If I was with another grown up, I would probly say, 'Look little Constance can say, Duck, say duck little Constance, Well done! and what does the duck Say. Wack, Wack, Well done'

Then I would get some toys to amuse little Constance and try to have some decent adult conversation, which despite the above evidence to the contrary, I can manage.

It's the Attention-seeking parenting that is so annoying and the tone that is hard to convey in written form but that puts your back up.

Saintly, that's interesting... I think this is part of why I was confused about my friend's approach, because a lot of the time her DD doesn't answer at all to the quizzing, or is obviously just saying yes or no randomly. I'm pretty sure my friend thinks this is encouraging her to talk more, is that not the case?

Earthymama, this kind of commentary is what my friend does, but I have to admit, I don't really do this. Maybe when he's older? I do talk to him all the time but, I don't know, I seem to have some kind of mental hang-up about the quizzing. Maybe it will feel more natural when he's older and actually understanding what I'm saying and responding.

Xenia: 'Children love having happy parents...'

Thank you so much for this -- that's really true, and something I should really remind myself of more often.