to ask what others would consider constitutes serious, or extreme, domestic violence?

[Multiplication]

This is for myself, not for any sort of a project. Your views would really help.

I'm not new but I have name changed.

There are lo of varying factors , my stepdad convinced my mum to cut her beautiful long hair very short then started with abusive names calling her thick nobody would want you anyway etc then it escalated to a slap which became a punch and a few times before he made her cut it he used to tear her hair out by the handful , he also attacked her in front of my brother and I quite a lot. That is the tip of a very large nasty iceberg. People would say why doesn't she leave him but where could she go? My brother and I would call the police and she would not press charges because she was terrified of him , also she had no job she gave it up t care for his elderly mum , she kicked him out when he started abusing me.
It is not black and White and normally emotional
abuse starts before the physical abuse. The mental scars cam stay forever. With children who witness the abuse as well as the survivor of it . The things my brother and I saw will haunt us forever .
I don't think abuse is ever on a small scale I think if someone is abusive to you it is only a matter of time before it gets worse and something really needs to be done about it now. Survivors of abuse need appropriate counselling so they do not fall into the trap of continual abusive relationships say ending up with a emotionally abusive partner but thinking at least he/she doesn't hit me.

All sorts. You never really seem to notice it though until you have left and found someone infinitly better.

I had a partner who was abusive but in a very different way to what the rest of you have described. Mostly it was pressuring me to have sex with other people e.g. his friends while he was there. I would say no over and over but he would always get his way in the end :(. He had this amazing ability to make me doubt myself even when my friends were telling me how awful he was, I would end up believing that I was the unreasonable one to turn him down. He would constantly put me into situations where I felt unsafe and used. He never put me down as such but made it clear that my primary use to him was as a sex toy. He also back handed me across the face once but I don't think he really meant to, I had put some cold peas against his back and he was surprised.

I actually met my current DP while I was with him and it was when he kept trying to get me to organise a threesome that I felt truly sick and left him for DP.

Thanks for all your comments, I think I should be in Relationships tbh. Maybe this will be moved. I'm horrified by a lot of your own stuff.

But meanwhile, I'd really welcome views.

H did move out two years ago now but rented the closest house he could find, just up the road. He can't hurt me any more, because I don't let him into my house, but he still tries when he's frustrated, throwing water in my face or chucking a glass or grabbing my arm really hard. Very minor. He definitely stalks me on MN, even though what I say is fairly banal. The DC all live with me full time and don't want to live with him, though he gives them lifts to places, but that's all. Nothing has been formalised through a court.

I can see that the physical violence was bad. It started with hitting me round the head very hard, where no-one could see, then black eyes and more careless bruising, then a miscarriage (sorry for detail).

But can anyone say how they'd describe making tape recordings for years? Years and years. DD3 found a cache of maybe a hundred tapes, and when I listened to the recordings each one began immediately after he'd hit me or punched me or broken something which mattered or emptied milk over a carpet. The tapes all had me upset and angry, but never with the trigger cause exposed. He told me they were to show to a court that I was unstable, not fit to care for any of the DC. I had found the odd tape here and there and that was the reason he gave - but there were a hundred or more that DD3 found hidden in an outside bin when he was getting his belongings together to leave.

Another thing I really don't get is his behaviour when my parents died. He hit me incredibly hard two days after my mother died, so hard I was sick, badly sick - I was just so miserable and hugely pregnant too. Afterwards, he described her as 'worm food' when I'd go to the chuch to her grave. When my father died he started up again on the day of the funeral, kicking water all over the floor.

You may think I'm mad but I'm not, I just need to know how bad this sort of stuff is in the grand scheme of things, but I don't know quite why I need to know now. Perhaps because he's still so close and perhaps mostly because he says there was no violence, and the denial has cause perhaps more difficulty for the older DC than the violence itself.

There's lots more of course, but these are memorable examples of the type of thing he's done.

Your description about what your H did when you parents died has sent shivers down my spine.
2 months after my mums sister died my dad threw water over her. Boiling water.
Men like this can't cope with any attention or focus being taken away from them.
Keep away from this man as much as possible.
My parents marriage sounds much like your marriage (minus the tape recordings).
WRT the tape recordings - don't even try and make sense of it or try and find out why he did it. There is no sane answer. Its sick. He is sick.
Just be glad you got out. My mum didn't make it out.

Multiplication - Might i suggest you contact your local Womens Aid and book yourself onto 'The Freedom Programme'..

It really helped me to understand a lot of what happened, and talking to other women in the same boat was such a relief.

You do sound very strong, but sometimes talking these things through, either here or with WA, helps to make sense of it all, because his type of behaviour defies logic.

You can also go into the Talk Archive here, and read many other threads on the subject, there's also an ongoing Emotional Abuse support thread running in Relationships i think. x

Thank you baressentials, your mum was clearly much worse off than me, but I wonder about DC like you too. Have you moved on?

And Jellykat, thanks too. Yes no-one in RL has a clue. They've seen bruises and eyes over the years but all explained away. Having said that, I've got much more confident now, since he's been out of the house. This is about the DC. The oldest three (late teens) are all affected and I don't know what to do to erase what's gone on. baressentials sounds as though she can still see it in her mind. I know I should have gone years ago and that's bad, very bad, but there's something about the denials which makes it all linger on, for the DC as much as for me.

It sounds pathetic, wanting him to admit to or recognise what went on, but it's as though it can't be put to bed, no closure.

Multiplication - this is where it doesn't always make sense to the people involved. To me, your situation sounds far worse. Because it is still on going. He still has an affect on your life. I second the poster that says you should go on the Freedom Programme.
Yes I can still see it all in my head as though it was yesterday (I too was a teen at the height of it). But you can't erase what has happened. Depending on the personalities of your DC maybe look into a Freedom programme for them too - its not just for the wives/husbands of DV.
WRT to wanting him to admit he did wrong - I do understand that. Because of my own circumstances and being a bolshy teenager I confronted and confronted my dad until he cried. Until he sobbed for my forgiveness. But you know what? It didn't help as much as thought it would, it didn't change anything. My childhood was still my childhood.
You've done the best thing for your DC. You have shown them that it is ok to walk away no matter what.
Definitely look into the Freedom programme for all of you.

To answer your first question - yes I've moved on and no I haven't. But like I said our ending was very different to yours. My darling mum didn't have the courage to walk out - sadly she took an overdose instead. She died nearly 20years ago and there just wasn't the open support for DV victims like there is today.
You have shown your DC the greatest example - no you might not have done it as soon as you wished but you did it in the end - and your here to tell the tale with your DC around you and you have shown them the greatest example. That it is ok to leave.

God sorry - hope that makes sense - it just sort of came out.

That's beyond words about your mum, I'm so sorry, really so sorry.

But your dad cried?

H would never under any circumstances do that, he lives a semi-fantasy life, having persuaded his family that there was no problem of this sort, ever (it lasted 16 years and after nine I asked them to help; H said that if I ran to the police it would jeopardise his job, which I'm pretty sure it might have done then). And living up the road, pillar of the community style (ex army officer, teacher etc.).

The farthest he's got is to say that if anything did in fact happen, it was my fault because I was run down after having each child and suffered from PND. I don't recall PND; I do recall being down because he punched me and kicked me and I did isolate myself because I assumed everyone knew, and it made me ashamed.

The huge thing now is the DC. The three girls have all now suffered from depressive issues themselves, quite serious.

I do think him having to stop deluding himself and the world would help release a lot of the pressure though I completely see that a childhood can't simply be airbrushed out. But I don't know what mechanism to use, or if this is just pointless revenge. I know that being 'outed' publicly would affect him more than anything and I don't know whether that's because he's nasty or because he's truly deluded and 'ill'.

We haven't yet been to court. Is that the forum for this? I know I sound foul.

Thanks for reading anyhow. I'm so sorry that your mum was so sad baressentials, it's shocked me profoundly. When I was little the mum over the road ended her life the same way, she just couldn't go on.

I'm so sorry you've gone through this OP. The tapes are absolutely chilling.

Best wishes to you and your DC.

So sorry OP that abuse is awful. I hope you are able to get completely free I him. Good luck.

any form of physical, emotional, financial, gas lighting, mental abuse is all wrong and should never ever be part of a relationship it is not healthy

does it need to be extreme, death is the extreme and it does happen far too frequently

Daisy you are in an abusive relationship please work on your getting out not changing him. womens aid gives great advice, lots of books out there to help you recognise what is happening and how to move on the best imo is Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men by Lundy Bancroft. You have to remember this is about him not about you and how you are being he bullies because he chooses to it is that simple

Multiplicatio what a terrible time you went through. please do not waste anymore time trying to work out why he did what he did, why he changed he did all this through choice his choice

work on yourself moving on from the past, to do this you do need to look at the past and this is what you seem to be doing learn to place the blame on one person as only one person is to blame. no one thinks you are mad (not who understand dv) there are lots of support groups out there and counselling is great for helping you move on, helped me and many other i know

multiplication Is there any way you can move? I know it is not easy bt yo need to take you and your dc away from this man for good. The things you have been through are horrifc and it is still going on.

Press charges against him gather all the evidence you can and go to the police, don't worry about his job or anything like that do it for you and your dc, get all the Information and support you can from womens refuge.

Your dc will all need counselling to help them deal with what they saw and to prevent them from getting into the same type of relationships , most of all they need to know their mum is there for them .

I wish you all the luck in the world , once you are completely free of him life will become so much better, you can move n from this and live a happy life
my mum did things she never though she was capable of she got a
new job bought a flat made friends and eventually married a lovely man and I love her more than anything as your dc will you. Don't listen to anything he says , his priorty is keeping his own life peachy while getting off on scaring and beating women he is a vile bully he does not desrve a good job or nice life he deserves to go to prison don't let him guilt you into thnking you have ruined his life , again I wish you all the luck in the world .

daisydaresyou this relatinship is definately abusive and I am sorry you are going through this, please don't listen to his threats he is using your dc to control you and keep you with him. It is easy to be caught in the trap of being with abusive people if that is all you know but you can become free of it. You have coped on your own before and you will again , you will find the sheer joy of not having to be scared of what you might come home to empowering and you can work on things like being shy and I am sure you will find it hard to trust people. I know after the things I went through I can still be surprised to find that most people are nice and decent. But that will come with time too. But please I implore you to get in touch with womens aid and the council do it for you and your dc and get some counselling , there are waiting lists but you will get help and find a different way to deal with your past.
Good luck and if you need someone to talk to you can always pm me .
Take care.

Multiplication: he sounds foul, you don't in the least.

I found out XH had been making hand-written notes on me for over 20 years and it really creeped me out. Making tape recordings after he'd beaten you, though, is beyond creepy, and knowing why he made them - for evidence in case you wanted to leave with your DCs - is pretty much the ultimate in sick. No wonder you want to expose a character like that.

Thanks Mrswhiskerson. Very, very hard to move. The DCs school depends on it and its a very good one and they are all very settled with very good friends. I've a Y7 and a Y10 too so there's some time to go. Because of that, we couldn't go far and apart from anything else, I'm almost certain he'd follow. It's a small house but very much 'home': it was my mother's house and she left it to me, so I've known it for pretty much always, the DC have too. That's partly why he liked causing damage: throwing plates at walls, pulling doors off hinges, emptying a 4pt carton of milk onto new carpets days after I'd laid them, that kind of thing. I do like it, it's true; he called it a 'shrine' (I have a single old portrait of my mum). But for as long as he follows, I won't get away - so unless it's right away it would be pointless (and a mini triumph for him).

Anniegetyourgun you're the second person to say that. These views really help, it's so easy to just normalise stuff.

I won't comment on your name!

Oh, I can talk tough, but I'm really a great big jellyfish. I only sting if you turn me upside-down

Any DV is serious and should be considered as such. Of course there are degrees to what a thing a vile person can do to their loved one, emotional sexual or physical, but they are all serious and bad and most importantly all DV starts off small-erosion of confidence of the victim, belittling, slight physical abuse that builds- but it always escalates. \Any kind of manipulation, abuse or bullying, is extremely disturbing and vile behaviour-however 'small' an incident may appear.

A friend of mine was badly beaten by her ex, to the extent that she had to spend time in hospital, but she's always maintained that for her the emotional abuse was far far worse.

I'm unsure why you are asking but just in case:

marriage.about.com/cs/domesticviolence/ht/beingabused.htm

Multiplication - You don't sound foul in any way whatsoever! and your reasoning for not wanting to move house is very understandable..

I would say it is very difficult to expose these men publicly, because they are so good at appearing charming and sane to the outside world, and experts at twisting things so that it all appears to be our fault.
It's so bloody frustrating, and makes you want to scream with anger but trying to get them to take any responsibility for their actions is impossible.
Having said that, it is important that your friends and family know, if you can tell them.. Why should you be ashamed? You didn't do anything wrong!

In a way the closure comes from you yourself, hopefully with support from your friends - you won't get any help from him, and why would he? - he's in the dominant position and in control..

Someone else suggested the Lundy Bancroft book - 'Why Does He Do That?' Its a bible for anyone in, or dealing with the aftermath of an abusive relationship. He's also written one which looks at the experiences and recovery for the DC of an abuser too, called 'When Dad Hurts Mum'. Both are available on Amazon.

You've done amazingly - he's no longer in your house for a start and you sound like he hasn't completely destroyed your feelings of self worth, so i wonder if getting help for your DDs might come in some form of counseling for them? .. Getting their thoughts/feelings out with someone trained and not personally involved.. Again WA will have advice on this... When they've been depressed was your GP involved? did he/she never enquire as to what may be the cause?

I can see how hard it is for you, could you not get in touch with the police ? He is still having a influence on your life and you really really don't deserve it.
Neither do your dcs you need to get in touch with the police asap and prevent him having access to your house or you because believe me he will not stop he enjoys the power and where will it stop? I don't mean to scare you but I think it is of extreme importance you get a restraining order on him phone the police now , write down everything he has done and get all the evidence you can .
I truly hope this gets better for you it's not easy but once you get this man out of your life you and your dc will reap the rewards.
If you need to ever talk you can message me too even if you just want a rant, you are not alone and there is help out there
take care.

I just wanted to say thanks Jellykat and Mrsw, for your advice and help.

I can't think a restraining order would be issued, because the serious assaults are all in the past. Now, it's gone low key, often with things I can't prove - a nail in the car tyres etc. (that's quite a favourite thing, he used to do it even when we lived together: I once found the nail he'd used, a roofing nail, with a piece of string attached so that he could pull it out after making the puncture).

Also, surely an order wouldn't be issued with DC involved? (even though they don't live with him).

If you're still around Jellykat, I see great wisdom in what you say about closure coming from me and not him. I suppose the thing is that the girls are showing signs of the past catching up now, hence the post and hence the muddled thinking and the very strong and rather childish desire to 'out' him. I feel very angry. And guilty, but I've said that before. And the DD1's GP will get to know because she's told a tutor at uni to explain why she's depressed and she's getting counselling from the start of next term. I thought she'd escaped relatively unhurt, but she hasn't, even though the really bad stuff was some while ago.

I've read what others have said about blame, but I still feel I don't fit the mould. I looked at the link that Mia put up and it asks questions along the lines of 'Do you feel you have to please him all the time' 'Do you live in fear'. I didn't. My upset turned into anger, and I became full of contempt. It wasn't the hitting that hurt, it was what he was doing to wreck everyone's lives. I'm not sure the hitting hurt at all physically after a while, or that's not what I remember hurting most.

What a ramble. I'm usually quite articulate! I'll get that book. But thanks, that's what I wanted to say.