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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to sack my builder? Answers ASAP!

73 replies

LadyOfTheManor · 09/09/2011 09:18

He's a good builder. I've employed him for about 14 weeks now, however in the last 4 weeks he's started to slack. Has to leave early for this reason or that, this week alone he has been late every day (for example, he isn't here at the moment and he was due to start at 8am). It's all well and good deducting it from his wages but I need 8 hours of work out of him. His brother is my plumber and is excellent, and I just asked him now if he knows where his brother is held up and he said "oh something to do with his tax disc, he rang me half an hour ago". Why the fuck isn't he ringing me to tell me he's going to be late considering I pay his wages? I'm fairly laid back, he gets 30 minutes for lunch and unlimited fag breaks, and three times I've advanced him his wages (£500 sometimes even a fortnight up front) as I know he has children etc. I don't want to be too harsh but he isn't the only working parent in the world, and plenty of parents manage to get to work on time. I've had about enough and I'm not too sure what my next move should be. Advise me as when he turns up he's in for a "talk".

OP posts:

CurrySpice · 09/09/2011 11:02

I was all ready to come here and tell you to cut him some slack but having read the thread, it sounds like you already have and he's taking the piss

Can you have a word with him in a nice way, saying, look, I'm not made of money, I'm trying my best to be flexible, I know you're a parent etc etc but you seem to be not too committed to the job any more - is there a reason for this because if he's got something else, you'd rather find someone now...

But lordy I hate confrontation!

CurrySpice · 09/09/2011 11:02

And to be fair to builders, many many customers are arseholes as well

BupcakesandCunting · 09/09/2011 11:06

Oh sure, customers can be arseholes. They don't get called cuntstomers for nothing

I started a thread ages ago, asking why I couldn't find a builder even willing to follow up a quote/turn up do DO the quote. Loads of MNers who were wives of builders came on essentially saying "Well, obviously you're an utter BITCH and the builders all picked up on that and didn't want to work for you. Can't say I blame them." I was like "Eh? You wha?" They got all of THAT from me saying "Hi! I'm Mrs Cunting, do come in. Right, this is what needs doing... cup of tea whilst you're measuring up? Choccie bourbon?"

Pffft.

CurrySpice · 09/09/2011 11:11

Bupcakes so are you an utter bitch then?

TBH I've had quite a bit of work done this year by various tradespeople and they've all been punctual and hardworking.

But I know that's the luck of the draw

I'm surprised builders have this attitude at the moment because work is so scarce.

BupcakesandCunting · 09/09/2011 11:15

I'm just the right level of bitch.

The only decent tradespeople I've had at this house (and we've had lots of work done) are the plumber/window fitter and that's only because the plumber is a close mate of ours and the window fitter is a close mate of BIL! Although I do know the plumber is very good in general, not just to us...

The best of it was, the bloke who didn't turn up last week got the job after doing some repointing on our chimney. We were chatting in the garden and he said that even though he was a roofer, he was taking all sorts of general labouring jobs on because work was tight. So I offered him the garden job and he took it. I wonder if he doesn't realise that money WILL be tight if you don't actually TURN UP TO DO THE WORK YOU THICK MOUTHBREATHY DIV.

CurrySpice · 09/09/2011 11:21

Bupcakes, I sense you haven't entirely come to terms with this.

Just some subtle clues that my female intuiation has picked up on

It is annoying I must admit. But some builders are good, some customers are twats, as in all things I guess

I think the plumbing trade in particular has got better. When Poland entered the EU, LOADS of Ploish plumbers came over here. They were, in the main, well qualified, hard working, cheaper, polite and reliable. And as a result they very understandably picked up lots of work. The standard of their work seems to be very good (big generalisatiin I know but the training they get in Poland is really exceptional)

They certainly made a lot of British plumbers sit up and take notice and I think a many have smartened up their acts a bit to compete

madamarcati · 09/09/2011 11:23

there is a basic misunderstanding here.He is self employed.He is not your employee you are not his boss.
If you want to have the authority of an employer then you will have to pay employersNi, holiday pay etc.
I think you are a mug though to pay day rate rather than for the job.

BupcakesandCunting · 09/09/2011 11:23

I do have a stonking ability to maintain a grudge, I admit.

Do you know what it is? Lack of common courtesy. I am an old-fashioned girl when it comes to manners and dealing with people. If I must cancel arrangements I have made with someone, I generally let the other person know and am very apologetic about it.

madamarcati · 09/09/2011 11:24

Don't get a polish builder.they have no knowledge of building regs as I found out to my cost!

TheMagnificentBathykolpian · 09/09/2011 11:26

But when you engage someone - albeit on self employed basis - you engage them under certain conditions. They will do x,y,z and you will do x,y,z. It's not a contract of employment but it's still a contract.

He isn't sticking to the agreed times, for a start.

Just because you are self-employed, doesn't mean that you don't have to stick to the terms under which your services are being purchased.

CurrySpice · 09/09/2011 11:27

I don't know about builders - I was talking about plumbers - that's my bag

BupcakesandCunting · 09/09/2011 11:27

Erm, it doesn't matter that he is self-employed. He is being paid to do a job which he is not doing. If he says he is starting work at 8, he should be there at 8 or not long after. Do people really think "Ah well, I'm my own boss. Won't hurt to swan in at lunchtime..."? Really?

CurrySpice · 09/09/2011 11:28

Lordy my typing's crap!!

Letz · 09/09/2011 11:29

I'm really surprised you're paying him by the hour. I thought that was reserved for contractors doing big jobs. Anyway you know now. Next time get a quote for the whole job - materials, time, labour - that way you'll get exactly what you are paying for.

springlamb · 09/09/2011 11:45

Just tell him you're getting bored with his company and a bit fed up with having the builders in. Really, as lovely as he is, you're ready for this to be over. What else is there to do? Divide the work into chunks. How many days work is each chunk? So how much money is each chunk worth? Then tell him he gets paid for each chunk when its completed.
14 weeks and it might go on till December? Blimey, I can barely deal with the man coming in to service the burglar alarm. Can't bear anyone touching the bathrooms and kitchens. Stress, stress.

notcitrus · 09/09/2011 12:04

My sympathies.
We've had loads of work done on our house in the last 5 years and the problem is the classic 'good, reliable, cheap - pick any two'. And after the first couple years money got tight so we go for good and cheap.

Reliable these guys ain't. We know way too much about their family crises, or in the case of the wonderful bargain carpenter simply that he goes on the piss all weekend and resurfaces sometime on Tuesday, so no point trying to contact him beforehand.

I find that they listen to MrNC much more than me, though I'm useful for holding a baby and guilttripping them (and playing dumb and 'don't have money on me to pay you' when they ask to be paid in advance!) Other than that we agree how many days a job should take if they are there for full days, how much of that is needed for materials, pay up on sight of receipts for said materials - amazing how much cheaper they are now - and only pay for days done no matter what. Loudly discussing how broke we are seems to help too. Sometimes it's like having an extra few children!

On average nationality doesn't seem to make a difference as some of the best guys have then gone back to Germany/Bulgaria with no notice, or moved up North/to Wales, and it's all quite random. We tend to get labourers to do the basic wall prep etc and then pay the wonderful, reliable but expensive plasterer just to do the top coat.

So YANBU, but give them notice first of what needs doing, how long you expect it to take, and that the last payments won't be made until that's all done (and make sure you hold out a substantial amount of cash, as otherwise you end up with one day of snagging to be done and no-one ever turning up!)
Good luck!

Original poster

LadyOfTheManor · 09/09/2011 13:24

Ah Bupcakes, I remember the quote thread and how I couldn't get any tradesmen out either...considering there's "no work about".

I'm not a complete fucking bastard to work for, I save my complete fucking bastard routine to talk to you

I did say today, look I know you might have some problems with home or whatever but if you're going to be late please have the decency to ring me and let me know.

He finished building our house, and did an excellent job, I just think he's becoming comfortable, when he does put in 8 hours he gets loads done.

He got electrocuted this morning, which made me feel a bit bad, but he's fine now and getting on with the plastering. There's easily 16 weeks worth of work and he isn't expensive-I just don't like having the piss taken.

There is a chart up, illustrating how long each room should take to be plastered and therefore ready for the decorators...this will be put into strict place on Monday and I'll start urging him along...it might be better if I'm not at home so he can't pop in (the holiday cottage is on my land but a few minutes walk away) and talk or get distracted. My husband is home until he goes back away to work in October, so perhaps getting him out of the way would be a good idea so all he has to do is get on with the job in hand. Think I'll do a trial week this week coming and see how it pans out.

OP posts:

LemonDifficult · 09/09/2011 15:10

LOTM, is the chart you refer to a programme of works? For what sounds a sizeable job you seem extremely laid back. What paperwork have you got in place - and basically does that programme form part of the contract? Paying in advance, having to ring him to find out where he is... Sorry but this sounds far too lax.

For whoever said about being self-employed: you might work for your self but you still have 'contracted hours' and in this case that means starting at 8.30am.

Original poster

LadyOfTheManor · 09/09/2011 15:22

Yes a programme of works...in all fairness to him he has had to put right a lot of work done by previous builders before even properly starting his own work (chipping off old plaster/cement before being able to start plastering himself). Just a nightmare. My head genuinely aches with it all.

OP posts:

CoralRose · 09/09/2011 16:10

Twatadvisor = CheckATrade.

Once again I will add that my DH is a fab plasterer/builder...we are in Dorset

LemonDifficult · 09/09/2011 16:13

Well, it doesn't sound like you need to sack him, just to get onto a much more professional footing with him. And who cares if it's been a 'nightmare' - he's getting paid for it.

What paperwork do you have in place? What retention are you keeping?

ILikeToMoveItMoveIt · 09/09/2011 16:29

Sounds like he is a good builder, so keep him if possible.

If he is getting paid for eight hours, he should be working eight hours, and I would remind him of that on a regular basis if he starts slacking.

The whole phone call thing is difficult. You would probably be surprised how many phone calls he has to make iro your job, then on top of that how many personal ones he needs to make. Of course there are calls he makes/takes that are non essential, but who isn't guilty of that? I would hate to think how much time is spent by office workers with personal calls/emails/Internet. It's only because they sit at a desk that they get away with it. I'm not saying it's right, but it is human nature.

trixie123 · 09/09/2011 16:30

as someone else said its not so much a matter of is he self employed / contracted or whatever but simply one of courtesy and manners. We had a plumber coming to do a boiler service who was hours late and when I rang him he said he was on his way and then STILL didn't turn up. Never answreed his phone to me again. No consideration for the fact that I would have been waiting in. Its so unprofessional. Lots of people are self employed but they work to a timescale and keep appointments. Its not hard to send a text if something urgent comes up. OP I do think that one way or another you need to rearrange things a bit and I would suggest that rather than making a off the cuff comment from through the kitchen door you wait until you can sit down with him and talk properly so that he CAN'T stomp off.

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