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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to sack my builder? Answers ASAP!

73 replies

LadyOfTheManor · 09/09/2011 09:18

He's a good builder. I've employed him for about 14 weeks now, however in the last 4 weeks he's started to slack. Has to leave early for this reason or that, this week alone he has been late every day (for example, he isn't here at the moment and he was due to start at 8am). It's all well and good deducting it from his wages but I need 8 hours of work out of him. His brother is my plumber and is excellent, and I just asked him now if he knows where his brother is held up and he said "oh something to do with his tax disc, he rang me half an hour ago". Why the fuck isn't he ringing me to tell me he's going to be late considering I pay his wages? I'm fairly laid back, he gets 30 minutes for lunch and unlimited fag breaks, and three times I've advanced him his wages (£500 sometimes even a fortnight up front) as I know he has children etc. I don't want to be too harsh but he isn't the only working parent in the world, and plenty of parents manage to get to work on time. I've had about enough and I'm not too sure what my next move should be. Advise me as when he turns up he's in for a "talk".

OP posts:

CoralRose · 09/09/2011 09:51

He sounds like he's taking the piss, but TBH a 'talk' will do more harm than good, he's self employed and you are not his boss, you are a client.

Where are you OP? My DH is an excellent plasterer/builder

SarahStratton · 09/09/2011 09:51

I agree with smupcakes tbh. Builders don't generally do 9-5 like most people. If they are getting materials etc, that will be taken out of your time. I've always worked with the assumption that if they get the job done well, and approximately on time, then I'm happy. I've never policed their hours, coffee breaks etc and I've never had a problem.

I'd rather keep them happy and have them do a good job and be willing to work for me again.

wotabouttheworkers · 09/09/2011 09:52

Making everything a win/lose is a weakness IMHO because it means quite simply that you can't take control of a situation. If you were in control of this situation you wouldn't be posting on Mumsnet! Take him his coffee and say calmly that it is not reasonable for him to come in late without letting you know. Also tell him that his work is good and that you want him to continue. You have taken note of his situation and advanced him money. Now he has to take note of your situation. A text or phone call to let you know when he will be there is all that is needed from him. He has a face like thunder because he knows he is wrong. Don't give him any more advances until he keeps you informed.

theginganinja · 09/09/2011 09:52

My BIL does work for a builder who does this, he books himself a holiday, then goes and asks his clients for cash up front before he does the job. We briefly considered employing him but that put me off tbh.

In the end we went for the (slightly) more expensive option of the builder who did our work BUT he got the job done on time and to our specs too. He worked for us 3 weeks before we had to pay him.

His car insurance, running costs, poor budgeting are not your problem, they're his, so he either pulls his finger out and gets the job done or you find a new builder.

smupcakes · 09/09/2011 09:54

Should of said though - when my DP does work for day rate - if it starts raining or something else happens that prevents him from working his 8 hours, he just bills for a proportion of the time worked? Can't you pay him like that? 150 / 8 = 18.75 x hrs worked in a day.

It seems odd you are treating him like an employee, when usually builders are contractors that invoice you? Why are you giving him a 30 minute lunch break?

Pang · 09/09/2011 09:55

My BIL is a builder (lives to far away to do work for us) and he has had to sack a chap who was very good at his craft but constantly late and unreliable at turning up. He didn't want his company to get a bad reputation.

Original poster

LadyOfTheManor · 09/09/2011 10:02

He starts at 8am and finishes at 4.30, he has lunch from 12-12.30. He chose his own starting hours...I order all materials and get them delivered as am VAT registered and need the receipts etc in my name. He works and is paid for 8 hours a day.

If he turns up at 10, and says he has to leave at 2, I find this completely unacceptable. If he turns up at 10 and says "deduct it from my wages", I'm not getting 8 hours a day and I've asked him to stay an extra hour to make it up, but he can't do it for various reasons.

He also is on the phone easily for 45-60 minutes of the day-am I expected to pay him to do that as well?

Self employed or otherwise, while I'm paying his wages he is working for me and we agreed 8 hours of work a day, if he isn't willing to work them then what choice do I have?

OP posts:

Original poster

LadyOfTheManor · 09/09/2011 10:03

He's working indoors, if it rains, then he is dry.

OP posts:

SarahStratton · 09/09/2011 10:04

It depends what he's using the phone for tbh.

Original poster

LadyOfTheManor · 09/09/2011 10:05

Well it varies, to ring his landlord...to ring his bank...to ring the DVLA...to ring his wife.

I think those calls should wait until his break. He finishes work before 5 so there's no reason why he can't make them then. He's been here almost an hour and literally done nothing.

OP posts:

threestepsforward · 09/09/2011 10:06

Really sympathise with you OP.

We had major work done earlier this year and our builder was a nightmare. A real bully who left me in tears on several occasions (not in front of him thankfully!)

He took on other jobs during our project so what should have been 6 weeks went on for 4 months!

It was such a headfuck that by the end I felt like a child a school and was looking to him for askance about stuff.

DP was away at work each day and I work at home, so all the project management fell to me. I learned many things over those months - I'm not a project manager and I need to be more assertive being among them!

On a positive note: his estimate was pretty spot on, and 'extras' at the end were no more than a few hundred quid. The electricians / plumbers / plasterers he used were all fab and actually helped me not lose my head completely during the work!

Your guy sounds nice, even if appearing to take the piss. I think you should stress to him that he needs to tell you if he's not coming / going to be late as you need to know to plan your day.

smupcakes · 09/09/2011 10:08

Well, I guess you either take it or leave it. Just pay him for what he works and you're not any worse off, though your work gets done more slowly. No one in their right mind would expect to be paid hours they didn't work.

I don't really see why it's a big deal - just a bit slow?

TheMagnificentBathykolpian · 09/09/2011 10:27

Well, I don't think I'd be wanting to pay him for this hour he's been physically present but not actually working! Or for the hour a day he spends on personal telephone calls. So he spends about 5 hours a week on the phone making personal calls? That's almost half a day's pay each week you're paying for him to chat to his wife etc.

He really is taking the piss, isn't he?

maybells · 09/09/2011 10:27

my oh was a painter and decorater and my dad is a builder and the hour a day rate ive never heard of to be honest. you are his client and if your not happy calmly go and speak to him about the issues and come to an agreement. ask him how long it will take to get the job finished maybe change your terms of contract for example a fixed price for the whole lot. most builders who are paid by the day will take their sweet time. was a fixed time limit agreed at the start of the project?

threestepsforward · 09/09/2011 10:36

I also think paying a daily rate is pretty unusual if he's not a permanent employee. I think that leaves you open for piss-taking OP.

An estimate for the whole job, with negotiations at the end for stuff that wasn't anticipated would mean he wouldn't get paid for hours not worked.

BupcakesandCunting · 09/09/2011 10:41

I bet you're a right fucking barstard to work for. Don't blame him for not turning up.

LemonDifficult · 09/09/2011 10:44

Is he contracted for X hours per week/day? Did they tender for the work? On what basis is he employed?

I'm concerned about this : 'so I'm not sure if I should broach it but I feel putting it in writing is just too official.' - you've hired him til December and you don't want to write things down, not good.

As someone who has been truly fucked over by builders several times, I urge you to write everything down and give it all to him in writing (Well done with the diary, btw). If there is no contract for the whole project (why not?) then you are within your rights to draw one up today, including hours of work, and ask him to sign it. He can be paid weekly, one week in arrears, like everyone else.

TheMagnificentBathykolpian · 09/09/2011 10:49

Another thing - if you've said that you'll keep him until december - he's going to stretch it out to LAST until december, isn't he...

NoMoreWasabi · 09/09/2011 10:50

Good lord, get rid.

BupcakesandCunting · 09/09/2011 10:51

Builders, for the most part, are arseholes. I'm sure I'll get lots of wives of builders now, moaning about what I just said, but it's true.

Six months I've been trying to get someone to do my patio/retaining wall. It's like looking for rocking horse shit. One utter, utter moron was due to turn up last week after all of the arrangements were put in place for him to do the work (including materials being delivered) and the fat, toothless inbred just didn't show. DH rang him to ask if he was still coming and he hung up on him! Honestly, I feel like training to be a builder. I'd be reliable, nice about things, punctual and I'd rake it in.

Only problem is that I don't much like the idea of chipping my nails lugging bricks.

SarahStratton · 09/09/2011 10:54

Fat, toothless inbred.

Decent builders are like rocking horse shit.

threestepsforward · 09/09/2011 10:57

Carpet fitter did that to us Bupcakes. All arrangements made, he'd been round to look and measure, then no show. When I called him he picked up and then hung up, a number of times

Why? Why not just say he couldn't do the job? Truly bizarre!!!

threestepsforward · 09/09/2011 10:58

In fact my whole experience of this year was like entering a weird parallel universe where normal conventions no longer applied!

BupcakesandCunting · 09/09/2011 10:59

Exactly, threesteps.

DH and I were like this at a grown man being unable to pick up a telephone and say "Look sorry but won't be able to do the job for you after all, something's come up." What a twat.

There needs to be some kind of TripAdvisor, but for builders. TwatAdvisor.

threestepsforward · 09/09/2011 11:01

at TwatAdvisor!

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