To think it is shocking boots don't give points on first formula

[Mrswhiskerson]

This was brought to my attention again because a friend of mine has just had a baby tried to breastfeed suffered mastitis and started feeling really down so she switched to formula, when she handed over her advantage card she was told points were not given on first formula , she felt bad enough she could not breast feed and now it feels like she is getting penalised for it elsewhere.

I found the same thing when I had ds a year ago when I was told ,you don't get points for first milk I felt really bad too it's like your being punished for not breastfeeding in a way .

This is in no way a bf vs ff debate I just think it's wrong of boots to do this.

Toktok, am interested.

I had been told that when I had my first kids in UK child weight gain charts were based on mixed feeding. ie "overstating" average weight gain.

I was outraged as it gives unrealistic picture of weight gain. What are current charts based on?

Seems entirely sensible to me to have two charts.....one for bf and one for FF babies.

There is no law to say that babies must be breastfed to six months. The link is a campaign. There is good evidence for breastfeeding and should definitely be encouraged. By Boots not awarding points it would be a Boots decision. There is a law on promotional marketing, but that is not the same as saying there is a law that babies must be breastfed. I'm in for breastfeeding because of the scientific evidence, but if a mother can't breastfeed or choose not to, she's not breaking a law.

Stormfromeast - has anyone suggested that there is a law insisting babies are BF until 6mo?
I believe that link does talk about the promotional law. Boots giving Advantage card points does fall under this law - points are a promotional mechanism of promoting loyalty and increasing sales. If Boots were to give points, they would be in breach of this law.

tiktok the charts in the red books are not breastfeeding charts. At least they weren't in 2008. I know because when I plotted DD's weight on the WHO's breastfeeding chart it was in a completely different centile (higher) than the one in the red book here. I even brought this up with the paed, who said 'oh yes, we have been thinking of introducing those charts'.
I think this is what you were saying though. Have they changed since 2008?

Soooooo given they give points for junk foods and drugs Boots are promoting unhealthy eating and drug consumption with their loyalty scheme?

No thought not.

Totally ridiculous,hypocritical rule.

Yes banana - DS was born in 2009 and had a BF chart in his red book.

Awesome! Thanks! I hope we don't go through the same drama this time then!

Oh and here's a thing.

You can go into any supermarket and earn points on foods containing transfats (which WHO have actually declared toxic and are banned in many countries),saturated fat,high sugar etc- but not formula.

By the logic of some on here it should be against the law to earn points on any foods which steer you away from a 100% organic diet rich in fruit and veg.

Bonkers,hypocritical,rather patronising and a tad silly.

thats not true about transfats, no countries have banned them. Both Denmark and Switzerland regulate them quite strictly and other countries are debating following this, but NO countries have actually banned them. None is less than many.

My baby is 27 weeks old and doesn't have a bf chart in his red book

Hmm, I'm in Scotland if that makes a difference. When DS was born, the MW came round with 2 red books - one had FF charts, the other BF charts.

Sorry, in a dash. If you google UK WHO infant feeding charts you'll get details of the history of them. They have been available to all since May 2008 but some places might have been slow to istigate them.

There have never been ff charts in use in the uk.

Then what type of charts were available before the new ones? Because they weren't very breastfeeding friendly...

Milsean you need to read the big article in the Indie and take issue with their reporting then.

They state trans fats have been banned in "Denmark,Switzerland,Iceland,Sweden,Austria,New York City,Seattle and the state of Califorrnia".

At the end of the road they're pretty deadly as is too much of many foods but we can all earn points on many things that aren't the ideal(transfats excepted which are just plain deadly).Basically it's all part and parcel of the huge amount of patronization,scare mongering and hypocrisy ff mothers have to contend with.

Thats not strictly true, the effect of the restrictions mimics a ban in Denmark and Switzerland, and its a little different again in Austria.

Its not scare-mongering to tell the truth and to have financial policies to reflect that. Transfats are very bad and should be restricted. But equally BF is a better choice for infant feeding and at the least should be financially neutral incentive wise.
Its a no-brainer really. Information campaigns haven't made more people do it, god knows what else will.

You do seem confused Mila, on the one hand applauding the WHO stance on transfats but on the other deriding the WHO stance on BF. Giving praise to Denmark and Switzerland for banning transfats but ignoring their very high BF rates. Surely your stance should be transfats bad, BF good?

I get hacked off with the huge over reaction to something that isn't deadly just not the best.Most of us are intelligent and well able to make choices for ourselves.

If you're going to molly coddle people over formula (which isn't deadly for babies in this country with access to clean water)then do the same for other foods which do far more damage.

The double standards send out rather unpleasant messages and alienate an awful lot of mothers.

I have a red book here from ds2 who is 8 and one from ds 3 who is 27 weeks

Ds2 chart for the 99.6th centile ends at 13.5 kg

Ds3 chart for the 99.6th centile ends at just under 13 kg

Same with all the other centiles so it seems they have dropped all the centile lines by half a kg in the last 8 years

The charts are done by weighing and measuring a group of children over 5 years regardless of how they are fed

So I'd assume the bf one was done the same but using only children who are bf

Milamae I know people who have damaged their childrens kidneys due to mixing formula incorrectly. Putting the formula in before the water so no it's not dangerous in this country.

Also in my 8 week olds red book he charts aren't BF charts.

It's not dangerous in this country if you have some common sense and read the instructions

Exactly Moomin you don't exactly need a degree in physics.

You can harm babies doing all many of things if you don't follow instructions carefully,doesn't make them dangerous.

You need to heed guidelines with weaning and iron intake when bf but it certainly doesn't make bf dangerous does it.