To think childcare is completely unaffordable?

[Sweetpea5]

i have 2 little ones and was hoping to send them to a childminder when I go back to work. I have been to see several childminders in my not very glamorous part of London and its going to cost between £50 and£60 a day which will be around £550 a week. So basically my entire salary will go on childcare. One of the childminders will also have one other child and 2 afterschool kids, the other will have one other childand one aftercschool.

How can it cost so much? How do people afford this?

"EasyFriedRice Thu 01-Sep-11 14:17:23
I'm in Brighton and my childminder charges £5 an hour so a 9 hour day = £45. I think I take home net about £100 a day so it eats up a big chunk even just with one child (although obviously, my DH and I split the cost, and I get the £243 in childcare vouchers). Can your DH get childcare vouchers too? That would save a little money.
We're considering No. 2 and have worked out that with a 2.5 year age gap, DD1 will be in nursery school 12-15 hours a week when I go back after maternity leave so that's what we're aiming for. Our CM also offers a £1 an hour discount for a sibling so that's a saving of £9 a day or over £100 a month for a 3-day working week. Our CM is an absolute gem and I don't resent the fact that she costs more than a nursery would, I'm delighted with her care.
One thing to watch out for though, is that a friend found her CM charged her for the time her DD was in nursery school, for the simple reason that she couldn't have another paying child for those 3 hours. So she didn't save any money. Worth asking your CM about her T & Cs before you choose one and sign a contract.
Another thing is that our council have licensed childminders to go into the children's homes. So you can have a regulated childminder come and mind your children in your home. This is better than a nanny because the childminder is self-employed so you don't have to pay NI or any benefits, and they deal with their own tax etc. They may also be cheaper, one I spoke to quoted £7.50 an hour for a 2 child family. We didn't go for this option because my DH works at home and it doesn't work for our DD to be looked after by someone else while he's around as she just wants Daddy all the time. Also I wanted DD to socialise with other children.
HTH x"

Can you send me a link for the thing about childminders in your home please?

I was really surprised to read that as normally it is HMRC who decide whether somone is self employed or an employee. Normally a "nanny"- ie someone working in your home for just your family, is an employee (there are lots of dif criteria which i can't remember off the top of my head- things like if you are contracted to do the job and you are sick are you liable to send a replacement loads of other things etc). They don't choose to be an employee. My point being that if HMRC looks at their criteria and decides they are indeed an employee then you are liable for their tax and a £3k fine!

Nannies can be regulated- ofsted registered, in the same way as childminders and nurseries, and then you can register for childcare vouchers. But they are still employees.

Plus the cost in lost pension contributions - that's a real hidden cost to staying at home.

OP - can you and dh flex your working days at all to pick up or drop off later - so say you start work at 9 and work till 6 whilst he does 7-4 or similar? That might save you a bit if you can reliably book childcare for less hours overall.

I'm in Kent, it's a little cheaper here, but you need to stop looking at childminders who normally don't give discounts for 2 DCs. Nurseries around here are £57 a day per child, but give a discount for the second, and you can use your 15 hours free at them to reduce the older one's cost. Also, at DS's nursery, older children are cheaper per day as they don't have as high a staff to children ratio as they do in the baby room - you should start asking around nurseries near you. Remember to factor in nurseries normally include 3 meals a day, nappies, suncream etc where as child minders often ask you to provide these (and if you weren't working, you'd have to pay for them.)

We about break even for my wage, however, it won't be forever, and then I'll still have a job at a decent level, rather than suddenly having to try to get back in the job market with a big CV gap.

I have a friend who both her and her DH work 4 days a week (but don't have the same day off) so they only have to pay for 3 days childcare, would the sums add up for you if you did that until your youngest was at school?

My husbands job is taking us to Woking next year. My daughter will have to go to nursery there which is 1k per month. We won't be able to get tax credits because we will be about 1k pa over the threshold.

About 6 months after we move there she will be entitled to her 15 hours of free nursery time which will bring it down to £700 per mth instead. It is a LOT of money no matter which way you look at it, but I need to work to re-establish my career and provide some money into the pot.

Personally I am happy to suck it up. I do realise though that some people are not able to, or some people cannot afford to.

I mentioned this already Gonzo but have you looked into childcare vouchers/salary sacrifice schemes?

I don't think its true that your salary reflects the cost of living for your area. There are a lot of people living in your area on a whole lot less than 90k. As in tiny percentages of that.

And I find it very hard to believe that on a salary of 50k you would come out with less than 29k. You pay 21k a year in tax?

bananamash here on page 7.
What I was trying to say is these "at home childcarers" aren't nannies they are childminders who come to your house. Therefore they are self employed like childminders, not employed like nannies. Therefore they are cheaper.

I imagine a lot goes into the pension from that £50k salary SF.

Childminders in homes - possibly employed by the council? If someone doesn't have different clients/customers or the option to have them (e.g. if the childminder was employed solely by one client in that client's home) then I don't think that would be classed as self-employed. I would like to know more.

You're right solo; and it's a whole lot of dosh that wouldn't be going into the pension pot if one took years off work.

To be fair, my employer matches (and some) my monthly contribution. I'm very, very lucky on that score.

so thats savings then, which you choose to take out of your salary for the future. So you have a lower take home pay for a good reason. Thats not the same as just having a lower take home pay with nothing to show for it.

That's interesting EasyFriedRice, I wonder if they are only offering this in Brighton? It seems like a new category of childcarer has been created and I wonder how they get round the tax rules for employment/self-employment.

Having read the link all I can think of is that there is a limit to the hours that a childminder can do per family per year.

YADNBU. Both DH and I earn quite a good living but we had to think carefully about how we'd manage to have two under 3 in nursery.

It may only be a brighton thing, but it seems a great scheme and if it weren't for DH working at home I would definitely consider it once i have a second child. I spoke to a friend of a friend who is an NNEB qualified nanny/nursery nurse and she'd just been accepted onto the scheme to provide this care. I think it means that you can work for several families and choose your hours, because of being self-employed (so you just invoice at the end of the month), as opposed to a family having to create a contract to employ you as a nanny. It seems much more flexible for both the carer and the family.

The economics of the second earner are appalling...

Yes, I guess you would have to work for several families on an ad hoc basis - basically the same as being a self-employed nanny now! Sounds like they would still have to meet the criteria for self-employed, and not much good for a parent who needed regular childcare.

Thanks for the link EasyFriedRice.

I have never heardof it before, and i am a frequent reader of the nannies and CMs board here so i think it is a local thing.

I also wonder why the participants don't work as nannies? The pay is gross- which is on a similar level to the net pay of a nanny. As a nanny you are entitled to paid holiday, sick pay and maternity rights and pay....

Anyway, that's off topic. Thank you for sharing this tho as it is really interesting and hopefully useful to anyone readint the thread in the area.

This is the dilemma that most women face once having dcs. I got through the most difficult years by working as a carer in a nursing home - very hard work and not the kind of job I'm happy in (had a graduate career) - but needs must.

I worked two 12 hours shifts a week (mostly at the weekend) and paid very little childcare. It's exhausting and I think I've damaged my back for good. But I took home around £700 a month.

Unless you have relatives to help, a childcare share with someone else, or room for an au pair I don't know what the solution is.

Op in answer to your question - how do other people manage? They change their life dramatically, is my experience - not just me but most of my friends too.

Having said that if you can ride through the pre-school years it gets a lot easier once they are in reception.

The fact is that childcare costs in the UK are very high compared to other European countries. And for some of us working is not a "lifestyle choice"...
I am a lone parent. I work because I have to. I earn a reasonable salary, as I have a professional job, but living in London my childcare costs are very high. A very big chunk of my salary.

sweetpea5 we pay £42 a day for CM per child BUT we are 45min out of London so its all relative because my travel is over £300 a month so it would seem to be about average... not sure if I was working locally on a local salary I could afford to go back.... at the same time we couldn't afford our mortgage if I didn't got back even if it means its only realistically £200-300 per month extra than if I was SAHM with benefits...

We have a nanny as it costs the same as a nursery (DS2 is 16 months) DS1 is 5 and DD is 7 - so need for older DC after school and holidays. And yes its a huge chunk of my salary, and I have a reasonably well paid professional job, but thats the cost of remaining in work.

A nanny might not be regulated but makes my life much easier, eg she does DC's laundry whilst DS2 sleep, I don't need to take days off if DC ill, holidays for DD and DS1 are sorted and when I get home DC are bathed and ready for bed, she cooks all of DS2's food etc.

Some nannies would look after 3 kids at a time so you might find that its a cheaper option. We have had the same nanny for 7 years (since DD was a baby) so great for the kids.

Childcare vouchers are tax free and childminders can accept them.

I remember those days. Two DCs two years apart. One in nursery and one at CM.
All my money went on CC for a couple of years. OH's wages paid for everything else.

Then it got better.

When they were both in school we felt rich

That feeling didnt last mind you.