to think that evicting hundreds of travellers from their site is unfair and immoral

[rocketty]

It's an illegal site. They didn't have planning permission. It's greenbelt...

but it used to be a car scrapyard (not rolling fields and thatched cottages then), they own the land and it's right next to a legal settlement.

They've obviously broken the law by settling here, but on balance, wouldn't it be more ethical to let them be? The children are settled at school and getting an education. Lots of people are prejudiced against gypsies and travellers but they've got to live somewhere.

I've seen the news articles about it. It makes me feel sad.

should LOOK to themselves first

All 7 settled Traveller families that attend dcs' school and claim benefits, own their own homes in Ireland, they are totally open about it, talking about how many bedrooms & how much land they have, when older they plan to go back and retire and leave the younger ones to run the site (which is small and immaculate). However, the local shops, local farms and quite a number of local people are very anti traveller.

When I arranged to have some trees lopped and had some quotes, one man was very quick to say he wasn't traveller and the other from a local company make some disparaging remarks too about travellers having no public liability insurance etc - tbh, it hadn't even crossed my mind, just wanted the work doing. Previously as a city dweller, I could be pretty liberal as it didn't impinge at all, but living now in semi-rural community it's quite apparent there are issues and tensions.

Fellatio - that's very calm, I agree with you but I'm surprised at the general tone on this thread, I thought I would not agree with so many people.

There is so much sense being talked on this thread. Traveller threads can be quite divisive ime but not this one. Maybe when times are economically tough for most people we are less prepared to indulge people who think they're above taxes/the law/basic decent behaviour.

FellatioNelson What a fantastic post.

Fellatio I agree with everything you said there.

I think that the majority of people who buy into the idea that they are a victimised and persecuted minority race are slightly clueless liberal urbanites who have this romanticised idea of a twinkly eyed charmer in his painted wagon, whittling wood and sharpening knives at the side of the road for tuppence, and they think 'where is the harm? Live and let live.'

As MrsHairy said, when you have lived in a rural or semi-rural area and you witness first hand the day to day challenges that settled residents have in trying to rub along happily with Travellers who appear to make up their own rules as they go along, and woe betide anyone who challenges them, you suddenly gain a whole difference perspective on it.

Not getting into the 'decent' vs 'disruptive' travellers stuff - because while it may well be true and I'm sure many travellers are lovely people, you still can't break the law with respect to planning permission, regardless of how nice and quiet and respectable you are!

Can I please make a point clear because it seems it isn?t and I feel my words have been taken and misused above. Maybe its my own fault - maybe not.

I haven?t given ANY view on the people at Dale farm.

The view I gave was on the suggestion that decent folk travelling around might be tarred by the same brush BECAUSE of the disruptive ones who are trying to stay put is wrong.

I wanted to make the point if that happens it isn?t BECAUSE of the disruptive ones - that?s just an excuse.

It?s cause the people doing the tarring want to ignore the fact that the decent quiet and respectable people who move on and arent asking for anything ARENT breaking the law with respect to planning permission, and then scrape the blame for blind prejudice onto the first lot. Thank you.

Excellent post, Fellatio. I wonder when the eviction will be?

Fantastic posts Fellatio. Totally agree.

Brilliant Felatio.

I read that Sally Bercow 'bonded' with Paddy Doherty of My Big Fat Gyspy Wedding when they were on BB together and she plans to go for dinner at their home. She said he was a 'lovely, decent man.' well I'm sure he is. I'm sure loads of them, if not most of them (in common with most of most people) are lovely and likeable on a personal level. But it cannot excuse the fact that on a wider level they take the fucking piss!

Isn't Paddy the 'Daddy' of the group that grope girls and call it something vile?

Dale Farm invoke Godwin's Law

Grabbing, Posie. But it's a cultural fing innit, so we can't do a cat's bum face at it.

Very true, Fellatio. Spot on.

Yes and fuck educating girls too.....

i can't help but feel sorry for the travellers, they've let them stay there and build up a community for so long, why did they wait if this land was so important?

reminds me of district 9

they've let them stay there and build up a community for so long, why did they wait if this land was so important?

'They' didn't let them stay there. The travellers launched appeal after appeal and used EU law as a delaying tactic to stay on the site (and build more and more permanent structures).

They didn't wait. They turned them down, they took them to court, High Court, Court of Appeal, House of Lords, Prescott gave the travellers a TWO YEAR stay to give them time to get out, more people arrived during that two year period despite the fact they knew they had to leave.

The council and the residents have been unbelievably patient about this.

The travellers want it to be a fait accompli - they want people like you to feel sorry for them. It's entirely manufactured and designed this way. You are being sucker punched. Thank goodness it's not working on everyone.

YY it's a complete abuse of human rights convention, discrimination laws and so on.

People like this give good things a bad name.

'Too many traveller children have little or no access to education.'

Too many traveller parents don't support their children in education. We have a large traveller population in our village. Their attendance at primary school is poor and none of them attend secondary school. I know not all traveller parents value education so poorly, though.

That is patently untrue as well. The LEAs bend over backwards to make sure Traveller children have access to education. The only thing that stands in the way of a Traveller child's access to education is its parents lack of commitment to it.

Funnily enough, I was chatting to a woman yesterday who is a teacher assigned purely to children of ethnic minorities or who have English as a second language. She visits Travellers a few times a week, and they have separate lessons just for them, outside of mainstream education. What more do you think we should do?