AIBU to think Bs at GCSE are ok?

[catwalker]

Some issues with DS and GCSEs/6th form. He didn't get the grades he was predicted (As and As) but then I didn't expect him to as he doesn't put much effort into anything apart from his x box. He got mainly Bs, a couple of As, a couple of Cs and a couple of Ds. I was quite happy until I started reading the secondary education forum where people are tearing their hair out because their dc's didn't get straight As and may have blown their oxbridge chances. I get the impression that anything less than an A just isn't worth the paper it's written on. He could have done loads better but Bs are OK aren't they?

contextual value added. Used to assess schools and rates the performance of its students taking into account issues like deprivation, LAC status, FSM, sex...rapidly being dropped!

I must be missing something then Paula. If you don't declare exams you've done badly on on a UCAS form which requires all exams to be listed, then surely you're lying, albeit by omission.

Isn't it the same as not admitting a current conviction?

But Talker you need buckets of CVA to make even the most marginal difference on the moderator. Only special schools scored 5, standard comps in reasonable areas maybe 1? Not an especially sensitive or adequate tool, though better than nothing.

UCAS is absolutely clear about entering all exam grades which have been certificated, without exception.

Do you really mean that the two schools advise pupils not to enter exam grades which have been certificated? If so, that's incredibly unfair on honest applicants. But I still think I must be being dense.

Paula are you saying that for example my ds who has 4A *s,5 As and a B would only declare 9 GCSEs and would have the B put on a separate certificate which was not declared.
Sounds very odd to me

I have never heard of that dishonest practice before. It did not occur in the three private schools my children went to. You list everything failure, C D or whatever. However most of those schools only want you to do about 9 GCSEs anyway so you've time to relax, read, learn, have your hobbies, be a rounded person, socialise and have fun. I think that is really important. Just do the core 8 or 9 main subject GCSEs and try to get good grades in them

Have been away from the discussion for a while but if pupils are finding it to their advantage to not declare some 'duff' results (and I agree that this is dishonest), surely that just reinforces the stupidity of putting them in for so many GCSEs? Clearly if you are doing 12 and that's too much you'd have been better off sticking with 9. I don't see the need for kids to take so many. Even if a child is outstandingly bright, I agree with Xenia (!) that they could be spending time on other things that make them happier and more rounded as a person. They could even (gulp) decide to learn or read something purely for interest/enjoyment, rather than in order to have yet another piece of paper which ultimately won't advantage them a lot anyway as an extra.

It seems to be assuming that the B is in a subject that doesn't matter-in which case why take it in the first place? It will look very odd if Maths is missing.
You don't need masses of GCSEs-I can agree with Xenia for once-sound advice.

It is only on MN that B would be seen as failure! Where every DC is supposed to hold their head up early, read by 3 yrs, be too bright for the infant school,pass an exam into a selective school at 11 or 13, get a dazzling array of all A* GCSEs, top A'levels, Oxbridge and high flying career! Since a tiny, tiny percentage will manage this-there will be a lot of failures!

My school qualifications are Irish. I got 3 A's, 3 B's and 3 C's at Junior Cert Level and 3 A's and 3 B's at Leaving Cert Level, with a B in "Ordinary Level" maths, assumed to be equivalent to a GCSE.

Technically, my qualifications are deemed to be inferior to English ones by most universities, yet curiously I graduated first in my class, despite the majority of my class having straight-A records from public schools in the UK, including Cheltenham Ladies College, Eton, Rugby and Oxford High, among others. I went on to graduate first in a subsequent degree and am finishing a postgraduate qualification with distinctions in all modules completed so far.

I didn't work any harder at university than I did at school. If anything, I worked less. According to this thread, I suppose I should have been accessing remedial education and/or should be written off as slacking my way through secondary education while those from the schools I mentioned "worked hard" and undoubtedly I would never managed an interview for a decent job in this country. Funny that, as I have one.

This thread is the most conclusive evidence I have seen of an MN bubble when it comes to education.

Is there only a CVA uplift for fairly deprived schools; and the "bog standard comp" is not usually a fairly deprived school? To get much CVA boost the child will have had to attend a school with deprivation indicators that are in the highest percentiles, no?

I don't think many MNers have kids at schools like that. Am I right to think that CVA is the sort of thing the middle class frets about, and the deprived class don't even know about though it can be a huge boost for their offspring?

Tell me I'm wrong? I'm failing to find online a good summary article about the effects of CVA, when does it really make much difference.

Everywhere else on the Internet I keep reading that all that matters when applying for uni are total min. UCAS points obtained from GCSEs, not the actual grades. Obviously most folk on the Internet not bothered about Oxbridge/Russell Group status.

Riven of course a B is not a failure, and for some DC that will be a resounding success and the result of bloody hard graft...but the OP admitted that her DS did not work hard and spent more time on the x box than revising.

In those circumstances it is a failure to do his best, which is disappointing and can have implications on students hoping to take certain competitive courses in certain universities.

Hopefully it will buck him up bit...as thesecond is hoping for with her DD.

ragged I am a governor at a school with full CVA and the majority of students are extremely disadvantaged. Grades and universities applications are not high on anyone's agenda.

It always makes me smile when some MNer, usually in a private v state debate, pipes up that universities will be giving priority to state pupils. You can hear them preening as they type.

But the reality is that this school is the type that would get an uplift, most definitely not your average comp in a nice enough area.

To be honest, any student from a school like this who beats a path to uni, deserves every single leg up they can get.

Just out of interest wordfactory what sort of results does a school like that get at GCSE?

15% 5+ A - C passes?

Less than this?

Paula you haven't come back to say whether or not you're talking about certificated results. If you are, the school is clearly complicit in the practice (since the forms go back to the school to be checked) and those with responsibilty should be sacked. Exams Officer/ Ho6, whoever. What kind of a message does it send to the kids? And what total disregard of other candidates. Our school would never condone that kind of ploy. I really hope your school is identified and shamed. All students who've failed to declare all results are at risk of being kicked out of their uni for fraud.

ragged it's not the CVA which notionally boosts a candidate's results, that's just a factor in putting together the moderator scores. A school has to be very, very poor for its students to get a material boost. The vast majority of reasonable comps will get maybe an uplift for its students of 1 (=1 A*). But there's all sorts of change in the air.

Yeah, I'd like to know that too (what Tyler80) said. Well, what I really want to see is stats, say, for 2010

Full (100% of max possible) CVA boost the school typically has X% getting 5+ A-C passes (best of any GCSEs, not necc. includ. math+English)
25% CVA score boost the school typically has Y% getting 5+ A-C passes
2% CVA score boost the school typically has Z% getting 5+A-C passes

What are X, Y or Z? I assume X is probably around 25% and Y is around 40%, Z is around 60%?

tyler the head sent me this year's GCSE results. I'll dig them out and post.

Contextual Value Added is not what gives a school the maximun uplift of 5. There's a list published of which school gets what.

Which schools get what as an 'uplift' for uni applications I mean.

CVA measures are widely available and published by the DfE..

Yellowstone, is there a website for Uplift? (sorry, term makes me giggle a bit -makes me think naughty bras...)

sieglinde there is, or was, and I've tried to find it but can't. I had it on hard copy at one point. I'll have another go.

Anyhow this is very broad brush but only special schools really scored 5 and
independents and grammars scored 0 and the overwhelming majority of reasonable comps scored perhaps 1. A comp had be be very, very poor performing to score 4.

"A comp had be be very, very poor performing to score 4"

Very, very poor performing is all relative.

I went to what was thought of as one of the best schools in the county. It was top of the league tables for 5 A*-C passes in 2008 - 56%

I would put it in the class of 'reasonable' being around the national average but aware that in some areas these sorts of results would be seen as quite poor.

Paula you initially said 'when they are on a different certificate they simply do not declare them'. That sounds like certificated results to me.

Loving the idea that it's a child's prerogative to perpetrate fraud. The duff grades are part of the pictue and the UCAS instructions are absolutely clear and in bold.

They're cheats and are led on by adults in the school, if what you say is correct. I'm certainly going to get hold of UCAS to see what they're doing to combat the problem.

That's not 'holier than thou', that's principled (not the snitchy bit, that's just the product of irritation with a culture which encourages cheats).