AIBU to think Bs at GCSE are ok?

[catwalker]

Some issues with DS and GCSEs/6th form. He didn't get the grades he was predicted (As and As) but then I didn't expect him to as he doesn't put much effort into anything apart from his x box. He got mainly Bs, a couple of As, a couple of Cs and a couple of Ds. I was quite happy until I started reading the secondary education forum where people are tearing their hair out because their dc's didn't get straight As and may have blown their oxbridge chances. I get the impression that anything less than an A just isn't worth the paper it's written on. He could have done loads better but Bs are OK aren't they?

Inverted snobbery is just as unpleasant as straightforward snobbery. I'm happy to stick up for Oxford. Brookes is not better, it's different.

Sorry-I was aiming 3rd paragraph at Xenia.

OP YANBU.

I posted my DS's GCSE results over on the Secondary Education section, knowing full well that they would be very much AFM (average for mumsnet). Some of his grades were lower than predicted, but I still felt proud of his achievement - bizarrely, his C in French was one of the most pleasing, I think because we were relieved he hadn't failed it after completly loathing it for the last two years!

My DS is hoping to go somewhere like Oxford Brookes and I'd be delighted if he went there.

FWIW, my Step-nephew got AABB in his A levels (Maths, Further Maths, Physics type stuff) and he actively chose to go to Swansea Uni, even though he could have got into a more desirable Uni. He just really liked it there, plus I think there may have been some kind of Excellence Bursary on offer. Anyway, he's happy, and that's the main thing.

Crickey, is this still going on?!

I'd like to ask for a summary answer - is it a 'yes' or is it a 'no' but am guessing I'll be flamed for being too lazy to look for myself.

My answer is - if that's what your DC got, then yes it is. Move on and up.

I wonder what our DC would make of this discussion. Might let my 16yo have a look some time.

My understanding from discussions with these highly successful people is that it's a combination of grit, having an "eye" for patterns in the field they are pursuing and judicious risk-taking. Dogged persistence and a drive to succeed are crucial, but not enough, apart from the very few cases where people have a particular talent that just happens to reap financial rewards (e.g. they invent something and it happens to have a market), it's crucial to follow those fields that will enable financial success pursuing interests that are socially and economically valued.

I think, from memory, you are an academic LRD? I wasn't suggesting they are comparable but at undergraduate level, depending on subject etc, it's unlikely that the average student needs or will use the vast library resources available at a copyright library and the "ex poly" libraries have seen vast improvements. I certainly didn't and I got a double first from an institution with one. There are schemes like SCONUL which enable students to access most resources beyond that level of study.

Whatever would the UK do with all these doctors and lawyers from Oxbridge?! Why is this the 'be all and end all'? Does this prove you are a better mummy?! The list of possible careers is huge and Oxbridge isn't the best place for all of them.

One of the reasons I haven't been tearing my hair out at DS's results is that some of the most successful people I know have very little in the way of academic qualifications. DH's earning power (with 2 or 3 o levels) for example is more than double mine (with a good degree). Conversely I know people with academic qualifications coming out of their ears who would not be considered successful by many. A friend has a doctorate in church history but has worked as a clerical officer in the civil service for years because he can't get the sort of job he would like.

There is a really worrying level of idiocy and snobbery over this. Assumptions are being made that everyone wants (or wants for their kids) a place doing law, medicine or PPE, paving the way for their career as a barrister or City banker, and that there are only 6 universities max in the UK that are worth attending. There is also the assumption that everyone should be taking at least 12 GCSEs and the assumption that the 'academic' path is obviously the best one.

I am deeply worried at the way posters are effectively writing off the results of most of this country's teenagers as worthless.

I have rarely read anything so sad as the OP effectively saying that she felt guilty at congratulating him on his Bs.

Newsflash: people's plans change, careers change, aspirations change. If the OP's son doesn't know what he wants to do, and ends up in a job that he isn't thrilled by for a few years (gasp! the horror ) then he will be able to retrain / take other exams later and do something different. (There are a small number of exception to this, e.g. medicine, and she's said that he doesn't want these.) In short, a couple of years working in an office or a supermarket is not going to ruin anyone's life. There are second chances in life. Let's not foist such ridiculous notions and expectations on kids.

catwalker you're quite right not to tear your hair out. Relax and be proud of very good results which are well above average. And never feel bad about telling your son as much.

working - sorry, I was just musing really there ... I know my students are quite fed up because our library doesn't have as many books as they wish it did, and they're nice, bright students IMO. Really I just wish there were as much funding for UK universities as for the ones in the US/ Australia. I'm not an academic though, just a lowly PhD student.

I think people worry far too much about GCSE grades. As I said before, but will say again, my students have a range of grades. It is quite normal to get B's at GCSE and go on to enjoy and do well at A Level.

My friend with a 2:1 from Oxford, and a private selective school education, is a geography teacher-in a small provincial town. Not a career that Xenia would approve of, but she enjoys it. My nephew from a university that was an ex poly is the one who works with computer systems and earns mega bucks in London.

Please can we arrange for Michael Gove to move on to some more suitable career (e.g. as a gargoyle), and put exotic in his place. She speaks proper sense, she is sane.
Would you do that for us, exotic?

80sChick - hurrah for you!

'I have rarely read anything so sad as the OP effectively saying that she felt guilty at congratulating him on his Bs.'

I could not agree more. He should be proud.

The obsession on MN with Oxbridge is only eclipsed by the MN obsession with Russell Group.
I got my PhD from a UK Uni that is NOT Russell group but has 5* rating (RAE) for my particular field (a large one with much modern relevance, same Uni is in the top 20 in total 2011 RAE, too). Not an ex-poly, admittedly. But then again, I have found some excellent & unique research to cite, on occasion, from people working at ex-polys.
I have an Erdos number of 3, so am not a complete research nobody.
So yes, it depends a lot what you want to study, too, where someone could go for optimal achievement, assuming any Uni can offer the right things at all.

Heartily applauds Eightieschick.

The most successful, happiest people I know are not necessarily those who got the best grades from the best Universities.

A great post EightiesChick-sometimes MN makes me want to tear my hair out! Where else would you get people thinking that a B is not only a failure but has blighted his life?

LRD, the thing is, should he/she be proud if he put no effort in?

My son got through all his exams and my overwhelming feeling was relief, rather than pride because he hadn't put any effort in at all. Since he's gone to university (on a foundation year) he's worked incredibly hard and I am really, really proud of him.

Imperial - hmm, depends if he really put no effort in, or if he's just a typical teenager! If he is disappointed in himself, he'll probably work harder for AS.

I have some fellow-feeling as my dad would say I didn't work hard enough at my degree and he still feels my final grade is something to be ashamed of. Now, I didn't work that hard, but ... I wish he'd be a bit proud of me, it wasn't an awful grade, and I think most children give their parents a bit of an exaggerated idea of how lazy they're being and how little they care.

It isn't the sort of accolade that I normally get Tchootnika-only yesterday I was told that I had no imagination and couldn't read! You are very kind
I would love to have some common sense in education.

It is so sad-on here we have people thinking that going to Oxford Brookes is failure- so this most definitely means that about 75% of our young people are on the scrap heap but 18yrs. People can be hugely successful in life without going to university.

ImperialBlether, "succeed against expectations" - yes, perhaps with millionaires but your post seems to suggest that choosing the correct institution is the key to a successful future. Perhaps in English Literature it's highly important, but there will be students studying a wide variety of technical and vocational subjects in so-called "ex-polys" who will leave at 21 or 22 highly employable, many of them having gained industry experience that enables them to hit the ground running when it comes to gaining that crucial first job.

I went to a university where a lot of students were ex-Eton, Rugby etc. They were the children of diplomats and of peers, with Tuscan villas and penthouse New York apartments etc. I came from a small rural school in Ireland which was the only option for fifty miles and I graduated first in my class.

Background and secondary education were not a good predictor for degree success in our cohort. Not all of those with highly privileged backgrounds and good degrees are succeeding and many of those we worried about who dropped out mid-degree are excelling. A number of my university colleagues did not complete their Arts, Humanities and Business degrees but dropped out to gain certificates and diplomas in IT/Engineering etc. These students have gone on to be successful and often more highly renumerated than those who pursued e.g. academic careers, Oxbridge doctorates etc. Some of these are more successful than university colleagues with initial degrees in Medicine/Law etc. Similarly, some of those who got the poorest degrees academically had family connections which enabled them to pursue avenues that are very difficult for even the brightest students without those connections to achieve e.g. a student with a third class degree in Philosophy whose parents set her up in business with a team of supports to enable its success.

GCSE grades are most assuredly not the be all and end all and I very much doubt they predict success over the lifespan.

sorry by not but.

I also do not think what a child gets at GCSE should cause people to judge them and write off their whole futures, which is what some people are doing. I do not believe a B at GCSE holds you back from very much at all.

Er... Eightieschick - I don't think I said I felt guilty about congratulating ds. I think I said I couldn't find it in my heart not to....

I can't remember when anyone last wanted my O'level grades-I'm not even sure that I would remember them correctly- without digging out the certificates.