to be really pissed off DP won't write thankyou letters to aged relatives?

[Anna1976]

or indeed any letters at all...

I come from a tradition where if you got a present you wrote a nice handwritten thankyou that showed you appreciated the thought and consideration of the other person. I've always tried to stick to that because I think that particularly with aged relatives, most gifts are about thought and consideration - and surely a little piece of nice warm fuzziness from the other person to you, deserves a nice warm fuzzy back, in whatever form will make the other person feel properly pleased. With rellies over 70 that is generally a thankyou letter. While it was often a struggle with my grandparents, I always tried to treat older generations as people I could and should relate to as normal humans.

DP comes from a tradition where that is seen as ridiculous hyper-social manneredness from the stunted 1950s when women were stuck in the home scrubbing and washing children. His parents have the convenient arrangement that because his father earns squillions and is rich anyway, his mother gets to not have a full-time job, lead her own life, pay for babysitters for the kids a lot (in the past), be "feminist" about doing only stuff that suits her (some of it is very sensible, eg having a fulfilling career even if it isn't a very good earner or full time; however some of it is really silly).

DP's parents have brought up their kids to not ever have conversations with adult guests, to tell grandma what they're doing at school and not wait for an answer before disappearing, to have no interest in interacting with older generations (to the extent that they don't know they still sound like schoolkids in their 30s), and most importantly to this thread, to never acknowledge presents from people (or say thankyou for having us over to dinner, or whatever) because apparently that just gets into a cycle of "thankyou for the thankyou" type letters.

This all seems to be a reaction to DP's mother's rather 1950s upbringing, most which she firmly dismissed as soon as she was the first one in her family to go to university and discover life beyond the kitchen. So you can see why she's still reacting even 40 years later, but I find the cumulative effect on her kids pretty sad.

I write those kinds of thankyou for the thankyou letters to my aunts and great-aunts all the time - because I write to them fairly frequently anyway, because (1) it's fun to correspond with nice people (2) they're interesting and (3) I feel a bit sad that noone else in my family pays them much attention.

I am increasingly feeling despondent that DP won't write thankyous to my family or his own, or interact as a human (rather than a disinterested schoolkid) with anyone of an older generation. My aunt has just knitted him 3 awesome jumpers - which are lovely - and his reception of them was that he wouldn't wear them outside the house and yes he might write her a letter but he's too busy right now (which is a translation of "no I won't", every single time). They'd be fine for him to wear to work, given what other people at his work wear.

My parents have stopped giving him presents, and my sister has started giving him Oxfam goats and nothing else, because of this total lack of acknowledgement, but he hasn't taken the hint.

I'd be sad if people said "he's a tool, leave him, bastard"... but I really don't know what to do about it. I think it's utterly mannerless in a bad way, he thinks it's throwing off the shackles of the 1950s because his Mum says so.

GRR.

Firstly, please can we stop using such disparaging language? The phrase "old biddies" is horrible, so dismissive.

It sounds like these older relations have come from a time when hand made items of clothing such as jumpers were appreciated as gifts. Clearly your DP is from a generation that doesn't appreciate such items and has never been taught the value of small gestures of thanks/appreciation.

I personally would write a short note to the relations concerned as part of a longer letter, as apart from anything else it's important to let them know their gift has arrived safely. But I would also be gently saying things like "DP doesn't need any more jumpers" to prevent them wasting their efforts on him.

As for your own family, it's up to them whether they continue to buy him gifts. Personally, I would have long since stopped, since they do not appear to be appreciated.

Longer term, the fact that he doesn't enjoy/cannot relate to older people would sadden me greatly and would be a huge red flag for me in the relationship. I don't think I could stay with someone who just dismissed people on account of their age.

I've never sent a thankyou letter in my life. I was brought up to say thankyou on reciept of gift, or next time i saw/spoke to gif giver. These days i would text i spose or facebook someone. Thats more than enough for me thanks. Generally speaking everyone who gets you a gift at Christmas/birthdays are the same people that you would have sent a gift to aswell. So thats the thanks, a gift in return for your gift.

And 'Thankyous' for 'thankyous'.......get a grip!

OP, i've just seen your follow up where you say he won't even acknowledge receipt of a parcel from your parents. That is just beyond rude. I am really wondering now about his lack of empathy and understanding. This would be a dealbreaker for me.

"There have been numerous occasions where I've been away for months and they have contacted me saying "we sent him a birthday present but are worried it hasn't got there, as he isn't answering our emails and hasn't acknowledged anything" - again - after this long you might think he would just write a thankyou email and be done with it!"

That is bloody rude and I would probably stop sending presents to someone who ignored me when I tried to make sure their gift had arrived. To accept a gift and ignore the person who sent it isn't right.

Baby- some relevant context is that we live overseas from our families, so things have to be done by post or email. Our parents and siblings can do email, but none of the other rellies can (and not even our parents know how to text). We don't phone most of the older rellies much because they're deaf and get flustered on the phone, and prefer handwritten letters. Thus the emphasis on seemingly outdated methods.

the thankyous for thankyous are just part of a normal letter writing routine where we're all being warm and fuzzy, they're not acutally done explicitly.

Scuttlebutter - i do wonder sometimes if you are right

yep, PhilipJFry

I wouldn´t have a problem with him not writing thank yous, but would if he didn´t say thank you either at the time/with a phone call/next time he saw the person.

All that said-Aunt knitting jumpers-without knowing if he wears hand knitted stuff?

Not everyone would appreciate them tbh.

So I think maybe an odd thing to do on her part?

I can't understand not acknowledging a gift in some form and - although it's not for everyone - I have a hard time understanding why people don't write thank you letters. I remember how upset my DM was when she received her first computer written letter from a cousin: she knew the boy well enough to guess that his parents had written all the letters for him and just made him sign the bottom, not teaching him anything about repaying the effort someone has spent on a present, or about interacting with an older generation. Now she doesn't get any thanks so she's stopped getting thoughtful gifts - she puts £5 in the card. If she could get away with not giving them something she would.

Thank you letters were a PITA when I was younger but they taught me patience and, to an extent, punctuality (nothing more embarrassing than going to the family party without your letters when everyone else has theirs). They were also used to keep distant relatives updated on our lives.

OP I think your DH should be playing by your family's game with regards to their presents. If he doesn't want to thank anyone else then fine, but to them it's incredibly rude not to acknowledge a gift. I think it's really sad he has this attitude - what do you/will you do with DCs?

Actually, if you regularly write to your Aunts-wouldn´t it be enough for you to say in a letter that he got the jumpers & says thanks?

Ignoring texts/emails very rude though, especially when stuff may have been lost in the post.

diddl - yes I write the thanks in my letters, but they kind of expect it to come from him - RoseC's point about her cousin hits the nail on the head.

re the jumpers - he asked for them! and wears handknitted stuff all the time!

Aha, tha makes a difference, but in total honesty i still wouldnt bother. Id rather not recieve anything that have to conform to someone elses idea of prefered behaviour. Yes, i am that nuts and arsey, and it sounds like your dh is too. He probably feels quite pressured and then resentful of the whole gift giving thankyou rigmarole he simply isnt used to. For me the fact that gifts are reciprocal shows all the appreciation nessassary. Realise this doent match up to many on here but i dont know anyone in RL who sends thankyou notes anymore.

Actually, thinking about it, I dont really know how to be with old people either.

I saw your tile and thought, 'That sounds very reasonable.' Then I read your post.

Families do things differently. A verbal thank you would be more than enough. And sounds like a good compromise between his nada and your letter writing. Which does sound like something from the 1950s. Your way is just as extreme and outside of the norm as his, so your should really dismount from that tall equine and stop being so self righteous.

Many of us were taught to write thank you letters as children. It doesn't mean you need to carry that on through adulthood. An adult is capable of conveying appreciation in other ways and 70 is hardly ancient. My ILs are in their 70s and don't do letters. They do texts, skype and email. When my lovely grandfather was still around (and in his 90s) he prefered a phone call.

As for your giving forth on your MIL, you come across as a judgemental arse.

You sound incredibly resentful of his family, particularly his mother. If one parent is a major breadwinner, it's not a "convenient arrangement" for the other not to have a full time job ffs. It's pretty normal, lots of people do it. I suspect that whatever he and his family do, it wouldn't be right for you.

And as your family appear to only give presents in order to get an enthusiastic display of gratitude then they're not so hot themselves. Not that I think your DH is particularly right, just that it's not as one sided as you seem to be presenting it.

FWIW I was never brought up to write thank you letters. DH was. If we are invited somewhere, or given a gift, I will thank them in person, and bring something if we're guests. DH would go overboard thanking them on the day and then write a gushing letter afterwards. And he has received a thank you for his thank you letter letter. It's complete overkill. My father gave us £3000 a couple of Christmases back and DH had nowhere to go with it, because he goes so OTT if my dad buys him a sandwich he couldn't express his appreciation any more than he usually does.

Well if he asked for the jumpers then I think it would be a nice gesture on his part to run off a little thank you.

But if you have said thanks on his behalf then that should really be enough for them imo.

I do understand how difficult/embarrasing you find it, but you're not his Mum, I wouldn't expect my husband to write a separate letter to thank someone if I was already writing to them. But in my family you get given a gift, say thank you on receipt and that's that. The whole point in giving a gift is for the receipent, not to enter into a round robin of thank yous.

Well it sounds as if some compromise is needed tbh.

Your family need to accept it´s not what he does & that a thank you from you suffices.

He needs to answer emails about things that have been posted.

Re the jumpers-he could have added a few words of thanks on the end of one of your letters.

Anna, I am not someone who writes thank you letters (although I do email or phone to say thank you), but in this particular instance, I think your dh is being very rude. He asked for a favour from your relative and basic manners require that he says thank you.

Because this is such a big deal for you, I think a loving husband ought to do it because it makes things less awkward for you within your own family. I certainly believe he ought to do it for elderly relatives.

I think (if you haven't already) you should tell him that he is coming across to your family as incredibly rude, as if he couldn't care less about them. I would tell him that he is not to ask my relatives for favours ever again and I would tell my parents not to bother getting him gifts if he cannot be arsed to say thanks.

My DH's family don't do thank you letters, but I do send Christmas thank you to some of my family. I type them and my DH and DC sign their names at the bottom. I'm sure it's obvious that I prepared them

Not sure what I'd do if they sent DH a b'day present as I would think he should thank for that. Sounds as though you write to your family regularly anyway so I think you could include a "thank you for the XX you sent to DH. It's lovely". This would keep them happy and I don't think they would complain that the letter didn't come from him. I think you're projecting your own feelings (that he should write) onto your family, where they might not mind, so long as they know it arrived safely and he liked it (or had the courtesy to pretend he did)

The other issue ie respect / concern for your elders - perhaps you both need to compromise. It saddens me that one of my cousins made no effort to spend time with our grandparents, but I didn't feel it was my place to tell him what to do. Ultimately it was his loss as they were lovely and he didn't get to enjoy spending time with them. Likewise my DH isn't close to his aunts and uncles. We now send Christmas cards to them (he wouldn't bother if I didn't encourage it) , but that's it. I have suggested we could visit if we're in the area but he doesn't take me up on it. He is a grown man and although I don't share his attitude, I take the view that it's not my place to dictate how she should behave

Get him to draw her a picture - he sounds a bit of a baby!

Anna, you said that your family interpret his lack of thank-yous and acknowledgements as him not liking them. They are correct - he clearly doesn't like them. If you like someone you don't think twice about replying to an email asking whether the pressy arrived OK.

I'm also slightly confused by you saying that when you write on his behalf your aunts say things like "shame he won't write himself but some people are just like that" - sounds to me like in your letter conveying his thanks you made a big deal to the aunt about him not writing on his own behalf. Isn't that just stirring? What's wrong with "we're all well, DH absolutely loves the tea cosy " - requisite warm fuzziness in soul of giver achieved, identity of thank you letter writer not relevant.

Do you both work? TBH it's a real PITA writing handwritten personal letters after a long day in the office, if you work and do this as well I salute you.

The knitted jumper thing is bonkers though - he picked the patterns and then declared he woudln't wear them outside the house? Is she actually just a crap knitter ?

I missed that he actually asked for the jumpers. OK, he is a bit of a twat in that case...

Is he humouring her about the jumpers? We have knitters in all corners of our family, and it happens.

Not saying thanks is rude, but insisting on letters is old-fashioned. A nice chatty phone call to say thankyou is my preferred method, and it works well. I always think it is nice to find an excuse to talk to people, especially when they are old and might be a bit lonely.

I am not keen on the whole thank you letter ritual. However your DH refusing to acknowledge receipt of a gift is clearly just rude.

Stepping back a bit, it sounds as though the earlier insistence on your family tradition - which I would find OTT and annoying - has got his back up and so he has got entrenched in an position which is untenable.

As an outsider, it is a bit ridiculous to demand that gratitude can only be expressed in one form (a handwritten letter from him) or it doesn't count. To move forward can you find a compromise that both of you can accept? e.g. could he agree to say thank you in a phone call to your relatives? If he does that and they are still unhappy then it is they who are being unreasonable not him.

thanks for replies.

i think the consensus is that not saying thankyou at all is rude, but letters should be optional for him. My conclusion is i will keep writing letters to people and do the thankyous. But the lack of empathy for older people is unfortunate.

@weejimmykrankie - yes, I work longer hours than him in a job that is currently 120% of full time, he works full time. The thing is, a thankyou letter, if your partner is providing the card, the stamp, offering to post it for you, is not going to take more than 2 minutes.
When I write to the 101-year-old great aunt saying thankyou for his birthday card, I don't stir or say anything about him not writing - she is just by far the most outspoken of all the relatives, so most likely to make a pointed comment about him not being capable of writing for himself.

To those saying "just phone" - sorry i'm going to get accused of AIBU by stealth here but as I explained in an earlier post, most of these rellies don't even do phone. Our parents are 65-75, can't do texts or skype, can hardly operate email (except DP's Dad who doesn't use it for social purposes), all the other aunts are older and deaf as posts, can't use computers, and don't like phonecalls because they get flustered. A typed letter would be fine for them btw, they usually find it easier to read than my handwriting! I agree that 70 is hardly ancient in many circles, but families differ, and my family in particular are old people from a different era, and have always been like that.

NarkyPuffin- Re MIL - ok, yes, she gets on my tits because she constantly bangs on about how intellectually progressive and feminist it is to suit yourself entirely and show no consideration for others, and how everyone should have a fulfilling job and they're just stupid and lazy if they don't. Particularly women who let themselves be trampled by men into staying at home looking after children and having no agency, or those stupid people who live on benefits. Or those stupid women in the third world who have 32 children and then die in childbirth. When her daughter was going mad with PND and sleep deprivation with 6mo twins she rolled her eyes and said "I can't believe i brought this up; get a nanny and go back to work and get some autonomy". I haven't ever had the guts to point out to her that her life might have involved less time in "fulfilling" employment, less shopping on King's Road and fewer teas in Fortnum and Mason had she actually had to earn a living or look after her own kids like most people do, whether or not it is fulfilling and intellectually challenging.