Fallen out with my mum, not sure why, or who is in the wrong...

[Pinkjenny]

For the purposes of background information, I have a very hysterical family. The kind of family that rings your mobile fifty times if you don't pick up first time. I am the worst of the bunch in this respect, by a mile.

Dh and his friends arranged to play golf last Saturday, and decided to make a night of it, staying over and going out. It had been arranged since May. He invited my Dad to play golf, but I think felt a bit awkward because he didn't really want him to go on the night out. Although I am sure my Dad wouldn't have wanted to go on the night out, it meant that dh felt awkward talking to him about it, because obviously my Dad would have to make his own way there and back.

By Thursday he still hadn't contacted my Dad to firm up the arrangements, and we were just in the kitchen discussing it, when my Mum rang and asked what was going on, as my Dad hadn't heard. I clarified with my Mum that Dad wouldn't want to go on the night out, would he (?) and she said no, and I told him that dh would ring him on Friday. On Friday, we had dh's friend to stay, and we both completely forgot that dh was supposed to ring my Dad. I was really pissed off with dh for not ringing him, and dh knew that.

Anyway, I rang my Dad at 8am, and told him the arrangements, he sounded perfectly happy, they were to meet at 10am. My dad had been told months ago what course they were playing etc, but I gave him the address, my Dad does not have a satnav, but he drives about every day for work.

Dh then rang me at 10.05am, saying your Dad hasn't turned up, can I get his mobile number. Dh rang him, but it was going to voicemail. At 10.10am, I rang my Mum, who was at home, and she said he hadn't taken his mobile. At first, she was all, 'God, how stupid, I can't believe he hasn't taken it.' At 10.20am, I rang her back, and she asked if he had arrived, and i said no, and gave a really nervous laugh. She said, 'Well, it's not bloody funny, Jenny, he could have been in accident, and why didn't your bloody dh ring him to arrange this last week?' I replied that I had spoken to my Dad this morning, but that I wasn't really sure that was the issue, why hadn't he just taken his phone?' She replied that it wasn't my Dad's fault (I never said it was), and that I should ring her if I heard anything. I wasn't actually that worried at this point, I just tought maybe he had decided to play a round by himself. But as it got to 12pm, then 1pm, I was absolutely frantic. I didn't ring my Mum, a) because she had started shouting at me, and b) because I had nothing to tell her, dh was still confirming that the hadn't seen him.

At 2.20pm, four hours after he was supposed to meet dh, and I was at home with the dc, imagining all kinds, I get a text from my Mum - she was supposed to be babysitting on Saturday night and I was going for a meal, which I had long cancelled, as I was completely freaking about my Dad - the texts went like this:

Mum: Let me know what time I need to be there tonight
Me: I'm not going, until we find my Dad I'm not committing to anything!
Mum: As I'm sure you know, Dad has been home for four hours
Me: How the hell would I know that?
Mum: All you had to do was ring the house, obviously not that bothered, are you?

I was absolutely furious, and so relieved i burst into tears. I haven't heard from her since, and we normally speak 4/5 times a day, so she obviously isn't speaking to me.

She has form for falling out with me in times of stress, she did it after ds was born, as she met us at the hospital when I was in full blown labour to pick up dd, and because I told her to shut up (I delivered 20 minutes later), she didn't speak to me for a week. I am an only child, and I feel it very acutely when she does this, she forgets that she still has her sister and my Nan.

So, AIBU?

I'm thinking that your DH should take your dad (drive him) golfing next weekend or some time soon.

I know. It's all a bit tricky now. My mum looks after ds on a Thursday, so there will be some resolution before then, I would imagine.

Well, thanks for the responses. I suppose we will just wait and see who caves first

Pinkjenny, can I ask if the 4/5 times daily contact between you and your mum is because 1. she expects it, 2. you want it or 3. 50/50? If it's 2 or 3 you probably need to make the first move to sort this, but it it's 1 then this could be the chance you need to move away from a stifling relationship. Tbh your mum sounds really childish.

Why couldn't your dad let you know he was home? Surely it would have been courtesy to let your DH know at least.

For goodness sake you are both making a mountain out of a molehill.Draw a line under it and move on!

Yes I agree Fenella, your mum does sound childish OP. Especially about the bit where you shouted at her when you were in labour and she didn't speak to you for a week! Anyone else would be understanding and just let it go.

I have 2 relations, mum and daughter who are close like you and your mum. It never seems that healthy to me and neither does anything without consulting the other and the pretty much know when the other one has taken a shit! They go everywhere together and it means that neither of them makes any friends (which they would both like to do) as they are clinging to each others sides! Weirdly they are both very childish too! It's like they've stopped each other from growing up and live in a bubble of their very own.

I have no idea why we are like this. I have lots of friends actually, interestingly my Mum loves to slag my bf off. Our relationship is very odd. I just never really realised it before now

Well I've apologised for hurting her feelings and she said it was OK, yet offered no apology to me. I think I will take a lesson from this and start to distance myself.

So let's get this straight, there was some annoying lack of contact that all could've been handled better, fair enough, people aren't perfect. But what this does is show that your mother then chose to "punish" you by not letting you know your dad was home and you have had to apologise?

Definitely distance yourself, that kind of behaviour and the level of phone contact isn't healthy. Although you will find that if you change the unspoken rules of your interaction she will further chooses to punish you in other ways.

Was she not talking to you because you told her to shut up 20 minutes before you gave birth, or because you had a second child - and she didn't?

The rest is as per filthy

Ooh, that's a bit Freudian! I told her to shut up, went in, had ds then all was fine, she was fine. A few days later she sent me a msg saying she hoped dd never treated me the way I had and that she would never forgive me for the way I spoke to her. It was really odd, and about a week after I gave birth.

She is a bit weird, and I have lots of unresolved issues over that particular incident. I am very disappointed that she didn't apologise also for what happened this weekend.

It does sound like you all love a bit of drama tbh. It is much easier to get caught up in it all than act in an appropriate way.

I am surprised you cancelled your night out. OK your (grown adult) dad hadn't turned up on time but it was highly unlikely anything terrible had happened. i think CBT will def help you not to over react and dramatise normal life situations.

Mind you - it does sound like you learned from one of the best- your mum does sound childish in her behaviour - I hope you learn to rise above it - it is freeing.

Do - I hope so too. I am absolutely determined that dd and ds will not learn this behaviour. Determined.

That's brilliant - I felt the same way about being angry - I will not pass it on.

I think there's probably far more to it than just what happened this weekend. Which you sort of already know. Your Mum- like a lot of the women in your family- has very definite ideas about how things will be, particularly in terms of having made a decision and then expecting things to happen that way because she has decided it. And she expects you to know things without explanation. And will get cross if you don't do what she wants automatically. The thing is, life has moved on in increments, you've had a 2nd child, family set-ups have changed, you've changed etc and she just doesn't cope with it very well. It doesn't help that she doesn't like your dh and any perceived slight where he is concerned will always be ten times worse. She is hurt because she thinks you prioritise dh's feelings over hers I suspect. She also doesn't believe he's deserving of the way you 'protect' him.

You're also v anxious atm and the cbt can't come fast enough. She sees this, she probably feeds off it as you have a symbiotic relationship.

I'd be pretty cross with dh tbh. He is very good at absolving himself of responsibility where many things are concerned. His inability to manage the feelings of others is what started this. And to be perfectly frank, I think he's upset your Mum and the resentment/frustration was just waiting to come out. She's also handled it pretty badly by taking it out on you but close as you are, it will always have the potential to blow up like this at times.

I think a lot of that is fair, Saul. Although as you know I am usually dh's biggest critic and I do think he behaved insensitively, just not to that extent. But where do my Mum and I go from here? I don't feel I can ever speak to her about these incidents because she is such a defensive/sensitive personality, but equally I am just building up resentments at this stage. And like after ds' birth, they are always under the surface.

I think anything that M does which she perceives as in the wrong is 10x as bad as somebody else doing it. And she probably feels that she was the one to ring up and chase up plans, still nothing was finalised and she ended up communicating through you. At no point did M pick up the phone and talk to either of them did he? It's not out of the realms of possibility that your Mum thinks that your Dad wasn't wanted and therefore you were the one on the phone 'protecting' your dh and fudging the whole thing for him. Who knows how big a slight she's perceiving here?

Honestly? I don't think there's anything you can do. If you talk to your Mum about it she'll become upset, defensive and touchy. She won't apologise. You can make your feelings clear, you can apologise for any part you wish to but you'll just make a re-run of the events happen, bring the resentment back to the surface and it will probably just escalate.

Frustratingly, I think she sounds a bit like my Mum. You'd get a lot of hurt faces and feigned innocence and then, yes, cutting comments about how 'I hope dd never makes you feel this way '. It's an over-reliance on her relationship with you and an inability to let it change. You could force it I'm sure but is it worth it? I don't know.

What do you want to happen? Do you want an apology for how she's behaved over ds's birth? And for taking the weekend out on you? Or do you want to change who she is? Or for her to better understand who you are and what you want from your relationship?

What has dh and my Dad playing golf got to do with me?

I mean this nicely to - you have made it something to do with you, rather than just leaving them to sort out their own arrangements but as several people have pointed out this is just 1 incident which is symptomatic of the whole mix of unhealthy relationships going on.

Good luck with the CBT - it will certainly teach you how to manage and control your anxiety and challenge any negative thinking and you may find this is enough. But you may find you need a different type of therapy to look at issues in your relationships with your family, this is commonly known as psychotherapy or psycho dynamic therapy and is available on the NHS (I know because I'm a Nurse Therapist practising it!). I know how helpful it can be for people to explore issues from their pasts to help them understand why they feel and behave the way they do. Remember you cant change how others behave (no matter how much we may want to at times) but we can change ourselves.

There is nothing wrong with being close to your Mother but I would be concerned about the over dependence on each other (as it looks as if this goes 2 ways) and what this is functioning for, what does it mean?

Feel sorry for your Dad, who probably got the message he wasn't really welcome. Surprised neither he nor your Mum thought to tell you he was home safely. Also surprised you didn't contact your Mum to check if there was any news.

This isn't just about the weekend. It's a bigger problem.

I don't like the idea of apologising to keep the peace, when you're not in the wrong. Sometimes it's better to skate over it and let it go.

I don't know what I want, really. I think we perpetuate each other's anxious disposition and in stressful situations we make each other worse. It's become a bit of a viscious circle. We are certainly close, but a lot of my friends are the same with their mothers. Is it a northern thing, or does that sound a bit wanky?

I think I need to resolve my issues with anxiety and catastrophising situations, and look to myself for that, rather than relying on my Mum to be strong.

I feel like a bit of a dick now. Keeping her at arms length will be really obvious though.

OP i am having similar ishoos. My mum has hurt me recently over something not related to this thread, she knows it and has not apologised, instead we are glossing over it and carrying on as if nothing happened. However i am not ringing her as much (mind with me it was 3/4 times a week not 4/5 times a day - but you know that is excessive).

I am currently undergoing counselling for other reasons, however what keeps coming out of it is my relationship with my sisters and my mum. My counsellor said last night that she thinks a big problem is that my mum is jealous of me and is a tiny bit resentful of things that i achieve, she will congratulate me on it at the time but then pick holes in it later on etc etc.

Anyway - all i am trying to say is that you do need to take a step back, someone earlier on said that you are the mother now (and interesting point about being jealous of you having 2 DCs). And you need to see that your relationship with your mother is stifling to say the least - but yes you know that and your CBT will help - but i cant recommend counselling enough.

FWIW - as i was reading this thread my bloody mother phoned 'just to see if i was ok' she knows i am on-MN at work! She said she was having a moment and just wanted to check on me....... spooky!

I do know what you mean about the Northern thing acksherley. We're the only branch of our family to escape geographically and emotionally and really, the levels of incestuous nosiness going on with the rest of the family are bloody horrific. Very much this is how WE do things and there is no other way. They share everything. Even if it's not appropriate. And this extends to commenting about all manner of personal things. And barking out questions in front of the family about your weight/piles/birth stories/funny rash and then chastising you for being pissed off because 'it's faaammmmiiiillllllyyy' and 'ooooh aren't you funny to object'. Because normal social interaction doesn't mean a thing to them.

Weirdly though, my Mum does feel she misses out because she moved away and started her own life. She made the decision that it would not be like that for me and my brother. And at a family wedding aged 13 when my Grandma hooted across the room 'are you menstruating yet Saul? I notice you're getting breasts. What about pubic hair?', I realised it was the right decision and I loved my Mum for it.