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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To feel strange about this friend's dc being entitled to free school meals with a bit of tax credits thrown in too

61 replies

lecce · 19/08/2011 20:38

I think I need a good talking to over this one as I don't like myself for how I feel about it but can't shake off my feelings.

I have a good friend who, imo, has a bit of a useless prick for a husband. I have known her for about 8 years and throughout that whole time her h has never worked as he is writing a book. One book. The same book - he has never finished it. He is educated to Masters level but has never used these qualifications as he has been writing/reearching this book for the best part of ten years.

My friend has never been especially happy about this but things have got worse since they had their ds 5 years ago. The husband does nothing for his son and never has, really. He very rarely spends any time alone with him - didn't do this at all until the child was 6 months old and now, apart from a couple of isolated occasions, does so only during evenings when the boy is asleep. My friend worked full-time from the time her son was one until recently, though she has just gone part-time. Even when she was full-time, her h did no child-care, despite "working from home" and her son had to go to nursery f/t - something that upset my friend greatly (no offence to anyone, but she didn't want it for her son.) Her h has promised her that if he has not finished the book after 10 years, he will find work. The 10 year-mark is this autumn and he has been making noises about needing more time for the last couple of months, much to my friend's dismay.

Financially they are cushioned by her h's pretty wealthy family who give a few hand-outs and, most significantly, have allowed my frend and her h to keep the proceeds from the sale of a house they had bought as an investment when their son was a student. This money has recently allowed my friend and her h to buy a home, and a pretty nice one at that, mortgage-free.

I have never in my life begrudged anyone any kind of benefits before, or, to be more precise, ever given it any thought at all. But now I find myself thinking, why should this man be able to choose not to work, despite being highly qualified, have a lovely home and own it outright and still be able to claim anything at all? I was shopping with my friend today, looking for a lunch-box for ds who, along with her ds, will start school in September. I had assumed that her ds would take a packed lunch along with mine but she said that no, since she went part-time their income is so low that he will have free school meals. I'm afraid I kind of spluttered and laughed a bit, though managed to smooth it over.

Jealousy is such an ugly emotion and I don't like myself for it but, really, he potters around on his never-endingbook, she works part-time, they have a lovely home they own outright, ds has a significant amount of his meals paid for...I like to think a large part of my feelings are down to my deep dislike of her h, who really is a twat, but still, what do you think?

OP posts:

festi · 19/08/2011 21:22

x post happy

also are you sure you are eligable also haunted as if you have a large sum in the bank surely you would not be entitled to some of the qualifying benifits?

Original poster

lecce · 19/08/2011 21:23

If he worked full time and she stayed home but was working on a book...would you feel the same way?

Yes, if I knew that she was not pulling her weight and contributing to the family in terms of time etc, as I know to be the case with him. It is not about gender - dh is a sahd and I work f/t - we both contribute to the family though, obviously. This man contributes nothing, she has even said to me that she feels like a single parent . She was devastated to have to work f/t when her son was a baby - her dh had the ability to save her from that and yet he did nothing. I would feel the same about any woman who had so little regard for her husband's feelings as this man seems to have for her feelings. This is certainly not about me having some old-fashioned idea that men should provide for their families...but they should contribute something, surely? Moreover, he is well-qualified and able to work, should others subsidise him so that he can finish this book? I am sure I will faint if she ever tells me he's actuall finished it.

Haunted I don't really want to comment on your situation but I must say I am hugely envious of anyone who can be mortgage-free. I do feel that is a big chunk of money freed up every month but I wouldn't want to say you shouldn't get your fsm without knowing the rest of your circumstances. Would certainly be pointless if you had to sell your house to pay for your dc's lunches .

It's just a bit of foot-stamping caused by my dislike of him, I guess. Twat.

OP posts:

ComeWhineWithMe · 19/08/2011 21:26

I thought you had to be unemployed to be on FSM, my dsis and my friend are both on low income and don't qualify for FSM.

AuntieMaggie · 19/08/2011 21:26

Sorry but I think free school meals should only be provided to those that need them

AuntieMaggie · 19/08/2011 21:28

And I say that as someone who really did need them as a child

lachesis · 19/08/2011 21:30

I think people who take something they don't truly need just because they are entitled to it are piss-takers.

ScarlettIsWalking · 19/08/2011 21:31

He sounds like a useless Fewl

lemmein · 19/08/2011 21:37

Haunted speaking as someone who was told by the tax man to 'get a loan to pay what you owe us' last month because business has dropped dramatically this year we cant afford to pay what they're demanding yes I do begrudge people like you getting free school meals! I don't even know where my rent will come from this month, and come September will be paying over £90 a month for my 2DDs school dinners and bus fares. These benefits should be worked out depending on disposable income - you will be better off than most I'm guessing if you don't have to pay housing costs.

I don't disagree with free school meals for those that need them though my kids have never been entitled to them - even when my DH was earning 12k per year and we had a mortgage to pay!

GypsyMoth · 19/08/2011 21:41

Actually, someone must be pulling a fast one somewhere

DrCoconut · 19/08/2011 21:42

It's contentious but I find it odd that receiving maintenance payments is not taken into account for tax credits. I know a couple of people who receive very handsome pay cheques from ex's and can still claim loads of tax credits that we can't because all our income is from earnings. It must be fab to only work 16 hours a week, get a full time income and then claim tax credits as well. I'm not saying that every penny should be deducted but maybe a limit should apply above which benefits are reduced? Then those who really need help could perhaps get more such as widowed parents or those who get no support. As I said it is contentious....

Original poster

lecce · 19/08/2011 21:43

Why, Sara?

OP posts:

MixedClassBaby · 19/08/2011 21:44

I've met plenty of people who've never got out of first gear as they've always been sure of a fortune when their parents peg it.

I think it's a curse as much as a blessing.

lachesis · 19/08/2011 21:48

I've worked as a volunteer with welfare rights charities for a while now and in every council I've seen, if you're on WTC you don't qualify for FSM. It has to be income-based JSA, ESA or IS.

So she might be on the fiddle somewhere.

Ephiny · 19/08/2011 21:51

None of your business really, if they're entitled to it then they're entitled - maybe you think they shouldn't be, or that morally they shouldn't take it, but either way it's not your decision to make.

Or do you think they're committing some kind of benefit fraud? If not, I think you just have to let it go, it would be a shame to let jealousy or dislike of her H ruin your friendship.

manticlimactic · 19/08/2011 21:51

I'm on my own only work pt 16 hours and don't get free school meals. She must work less than 16 hours or is getting paid a crap wage.

HauntedLittleLunatic · 19/08/2011 21:56

And that is very interesting. I gave part of my story and have as a result largely been flamed. It is no less than I expected. And wondered how harshly I would be judged with incomplete (but accurate) info.

Maybe it us wrong that I am entitled to it, maybe the criteria should take into account savings. But it doesn't.

as it happens my lump some isiquid assets (family discussed in op do not have liquid assets - their assets are tied up in property). The fact their family do support them is irrelevant from a eligibility/entitlement perspective (and I would be interested in the difference between these 2 terms).

I also find it interesting that when I debated on here (under a diff name I think) whether I should take these fsm given the fact that I had reasonable savings (and I haven't actually said how much - my mortgage is tiny by Todays standards) the answer was an almost unanimous you are entitled so you should use them if it helps from a practical and/or financial perspective.

I guess what I am trying to say/show is that looking from the outside you don't always have the relevant facts.

littlebluespring · 19/08/2011 21:56

There is clearly an issue that benefits are worked out on income and not on assets if the assets are tied up in a house. I think this kind of thing happens quite a bit.

My friend describes herself as 'dirt poor' but owns her three bedroom house outright. When housing is such a large part of people's outgoings, it does seem unfair that people like the OP's friend and my friend are entitled to FSM, particularly when these are not temporary situations and they could buy cheaper houses and use the money freed up to support their own children. And I do find it hard to listen to these remarks when I don't know how we are going to continue paying our mortgage, so I sympathise with the OP.

I suspect the reason why these situations arise is because it would be so expensive, and not cost effective, to take people's assets into account for the limited number of cases where people who are asset rich but cash poor are claiming benefits. So the benefits system is set up to help people who really need it, but sometimes people who could find other ways of supporting their children at a reasonable level choose not to.

Original poster

lecce · 19/08/2011 22:01

Her hours vary, I'm not too sure of the details but I would be very surprised if she was lying. I would never even consider reporting her (or anyone else) for benefit fraud as I would never want it on my conscience - I can't imagine ever feeling that I had sufficient information, or the right, to put someone through that.

I have no intention of letting it spoil the freindship, I was a bit shocked this afternoon but I am getting it out of my system now, with the help of MN and dh. As others have said, she has problems with her dh and I cetainly won't be adding to them.

It has made me think a bit about benefits though and I think I agree with someone on here who said outgoings should be considered as well as income. However, I suppose it would make it very complicated and I would rather a few cases like this slip through the net than that anyone in need goes without.

OP posts:

kiki22 · 19/08/2011 22:06

I totally get where ur coming from here... a close family member of mine has decided she doesn't want to work no real reason why she can't as her DD is at school just doesn't want to, she got £1000 grant when her DD was born she gets her full rent paid got a grant for £3000 to decorate and get furniture gets around £300 every 2 weeks between income support tax credits and family allowance which doesn't seem much but when you think no rent council tax or national insurance to pay is not bad. She also doesn't have to provide clothes for her DD as parents see to that for her and grandparents pay for special things like school uniform, kit for danicng classes holiday clothes (grandparents also pay for holidays).

tho i wouldn't want her life i do sometimes think how the hell can she live like that and get away with it, when i see how much tax i pay or my rent come off or even yet another long day at work i just think how is it fair. I know what people will say that i'm bitter damn right i am it's so annoying to have to work for everything when others get it handed to them.

Still wouldn't swap lives tho...

littlebluespring · 19/08/2011 22:14

I don't think there is a way of resolving these problems.

The benefits system is a very blunt way of supporting people, but there doesn't seem to be alternative that would be fairer.

TinyWeeTeethGreatBigBite · 19/08/2011 22:31

I read this recently:

Both maximum child tax credit and maximum working tax credit and your income is under £6420 (with effect from April 6, 2011).

I don't fully understand it (am stupid ) but I think if you worked 16 hours on minimum wage this would be higher than your income? Would it? So you would be able to claim fsm?

NonnoMum · 19/08/2011 22:44

It would irk me, too. Layabout husband writes a (shite) book for ten years whilst his child eats free school meals. What book is it, The Bible 2? It had better be a good one.
Twat.

festi · 19/08/2011 22:47

TinyWee, you are not eligable for free meals if claiming working tax credit

festi · 19/08/2011 22:49

kikki22 your figures are not quite accurate

Lougle · 19/08/2011 22:58

The WTC thing is odd. We get £8 per week WTC, which stops us getting £30 per week of FSM.

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