To think that this is the worst example of gender bollocks I've found?

[nenevomito]

So the Studio Christmas book arrived on my doorstep yesterday. I once ordered some personalised pencils and have forever more been on their radar.

I have had to put it away as I am so fucking angry that they are selling shite like this.
I want to be Girls dress up set

A horse rider, a maid, a nurse a ballerina or a beautician.

A Maid???? Yeah set the bar high on aspiration there you knobbers.

So what about the boys set? Is it as pathetic?

I want to be boys dress up

A businessman, a pilot, an astronaut, a postman and a policeman.

How the hell have we got to 2011 where this shit is still acceptable. I am not saying that girls shouldn't want to be those things, but why the hell isn't the girls "I want to be dress up set" - Doctor, business woman, pilot, astronaut?

Maid???? You are SHITTING me Studio!

Then I made the mistake of searching for girls roleplay and discovered they carried on with the theme. Sure. Why not. Let me set aspiration and expectation in my daughter by dressing her as a maid and giving her the laundry set complete with pink fucking whirlygig washing line. for the Girls roleplay

I don't often rant on here but .

Regarding the OP: it is interesting that the paper catalogue calls it a maid's uniform while the online version says "waitress".

Maybe they've already had complaints and seen the error of their ways to a degree - it would have been easy to change the website but not the printed catalogue.

No reason not to keep raising it with them, obviously, as it's not just the name of the costume that is the problem.

Sarcasm and use of the word 'honey'.

yes, you are the one with the bad logic. And little understanding of causality and consequences. Did you consider that those women with high status jobs did it despite the sparkly dress effect, one that many others never got past?

But there is noting wrong with sparkly dresses.

"Never got past" what exactly?!

'As children did you not dress-up in gender specific costumes?'

I didn't. The costumes for dressing up were eg 'pirate' or 'horse' or 'doctor'. Gender didn't really come into it.

Yes, sarcasm. And use of the word "honey". I am annoyed with you and I don't care if you know it.

Why? Because insisting there's no issue here just because you don't care about it, and twisting people's words to try and suggest that they are saying things they're not (e.g. the suggestion that it was offensive of Siamo to describe nursing as not having a high status), really fucking ticks me off. Pretend it's you being set upon for no reason though, if you want. Knock yourself out.

I am so, so sick of time-wasting arguments. I must make a post-it for the laptop that says DON'T GET DRAWN IN

Why was that- did you parents disaprove of gender specific costumes?

Why don't you get this moved to the Feminism topic then?
Where you can all sit around going on about how we 'just don't understand' and 'don't care about it'.
You can all pat each other on the back and despair at the 'ignorance' of us poor plebs who happen to (shock, horror) disagree with you.

IMHE, children who are given a range of outfits to dress up with, (which they usually are exposed to at school, will dress in anything. They just dont care, boys in princess, girls in buzz lightyear etc.
It is YOU all forcing this gender neutral only stuff, MAKING the issue. Children just love dressing up full stop, and change their outfit every two mins or so in the role play corner.

I also must not Get Drawn In. Just makes me too.

you are asking silly questions now. If you don't understand the thread just say so.

Its not about disagreeing, if you don't even engage with the topic. And actually there are some things that if you disagree you are just sorted in to the Bit Dim file. Things like water is wet, fire is hot, gender specific modelling affects childrens sense of gender roles, that sort of thing.

"Children just love dressing up full stop, and change their outfit every two mins or so in the role play corner. "

Yes, agreed; so why not aim to ensure they all have access to a decent range of choices, not just "girl costumes" or "boy costumes"? If one is going to buy costumes in the first place, I mean.

As for moving the thread: what, are we not allowed to get fucked off about terrible logic on AIBU threads any more? Or mention sexism in any topic that isn't Feminism?

Seriously - I don't see anyone characterising this as a "them and us, feminists against the world" debate except you.

Viva eloquent feminists! Means I can just sit here and nod along rather than get off/stay on my ass and type out what I think!

Also, mumble, before I go: I don't remotely mind if someone doesn't care about this, that is totally up to them. I think it is important but am able to accept it's not a big deal to everyone, some people have other priorities.

I DO object though, if they keep insisting, as Coco did earlier, that anyone who does care about it is creating an issue where none exists. That is basically just saying "You're an idiot to worry about this, because it doesn't bother me".

So it's really a bit misleading of you to quote my words "don't care about it" as if I was saying "everyone must care about it".

There seems to be something of a theme here, actually, with people misrepresenting what others have said

Actually, there a a few posters disagreeing, and as usual, being jumped on by those who are of a 'stronger' feminist persuasion. I know because i keep lurking in feminism, trying to listen and learn, but it makes me cross. So I give up.
BTW I am not a girly girl, am happy for my son to play with whatever toys interest him, including dolls, pushchairs etc. And if I have a daughter, she can play with whatever she is interested in.

My point is to give them the CHOICE.

Whether it is pink and sparkly, or blue and sparkly() any colour or 'gender' specific or not.
It seems to me that a lot of the discussion seems to want to take that choice away. (e.g. gender neutral only)

I do care, hence why I have posted, but I am of a different viewpoint.
Actually, have changed my mind. Don't think this should be moved to Feminism. More interesting to get a rounded viewpoint in AIBU...

Really? I see loads of posters who want to maximise the choices available to kids, not restrict them to gender-neutral only

Oh well. Maybe we are both inadvertently viewing the thread thru lens of our own expectations. I REALLY must go or will be late ... do not have time to read back.

"There seems to be something of a theme here, actually, with people misrepresenting what others have said"

Hmm there does, doesnt there Dirty? Implying I think racisim is ok- remember that?

But surely the argument here is that by marketing some toys, costumes, etc. as being specifically for boys or specifically for girls it is actually limiting choice? Similarly, if you go into Hamleys, there are different floors for girls things and boys things - again, surely that is limiting choice because a girl who wants to get a train set or a boy who wants a dolls house will have to step way, way outside the "boundaries" set by toy marketers.

Well, and that's not to mention that often it's parents and other adults in a child's life that feel uncomfortable going too far outside the gender comfort zones. DH and I were in one of those discount stores recently, walking down the toy aisle behind a woman with a girl of perhaps 2 nearing 3. She reached for a cowboy hat playset and her mother sternly said, "no, that's for boys," then proceeded to quiz her daughter on which of the toys in the aisle were for girls and which for boys. How inconsiderate that the shop hadn't already segregated them.

But you were saying Coco and others didn't care! How did I misquote?

But I didn't imply that, Coco. I just didn't imply that at all. I was making an analogy to show you how ridiculous it would be, thereby demonstrating how your original point similarly didn't add up.

FGS.

I really can't tell whether you are deliberately pretending not to get that, or genuinely unable to see it.

I think this really does matter; my dd (9 y o, who is currently 'kung fu training' in the garden with her friends - 'first I couldn't take down Joe, but then I tried my speciality move on him and I succeeded') does not feel even slightly represented by or interested in these stereotypically girly things. The way she puts it is 'I'm just not a girly girl'. If the message she gets from all angles is that to be a girl means being all pink, sparkly and waitressy, then she'd gong to intuit that she can't be a girl at all. We've had times when we've really talked this over with her already, and she's only 9.

What dh and I are trying to instil in her is that she can be a girl without being a girly girl; she can be a very cool girl who climbs trees and hangs out with boys and also sews and cooks sometimes when it's raining, just like her brother. It's hard though, when outside of our home there are these two vey polarised gender depictions everywhere (which, actually, don't rpresent our ds either). So yes, it matters.

I maintain that what we need to work on are boys' choices of career, not girls'.

""You're an idiot to worry about this, because it doesn't bother me".

Oh how insightful of you to twist my words to suit your own agenda. Yes you did imply I though racism was ok. Anyone with half a brain can you read your post for themself and see it and black and white so protest all you want.

Look up : "hypocritical"

Oh and yes mumble this is my feeling too "It seems to me that a lot of the discussion seems to want to take that choice away. (e.g. gender neutral only)"

Frankly its none of your bussiness what other parents or children choose to do.

a few posters disagreeing, and as usual, being jumped on by those who are of a 'stronger' feminist persuasion

Surely the other people are also "disagreeing" not "jumping on" people?!?

Using metaphors to set up bully/victim dichotomy is hardly a substitute for a well reasoned counter-argument against people you disagree with!

Mumble, you didn't "misquote". But you quoted it in a way that suggested I minded about people not caring. I really don't, as I've clearly said. That is up to them.

What I actually mind about is people who don't care insisting that there is therefore no issue and nobody should care.