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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to really not understand how parents hurt, or allow others to hurt, their children?

56 replies

CheerfulYank · 17/08/2011 08:14

There was a case in the news recently

( and this is EXTREMELY upsetting, so don't read further if you don't want to )

about a little boy (3) whose mother and baby-sitter allowed two men to rape and torture him in exchange for meth .

I just...I know there's no understanding it, and I was glad to see that against all odds the boy is alive and won't suffer permanent (physical, anyway) damage. But I just can't see how things like this happen.

DS just had a bad dream about five minutes ago. I went to comfort him and said something like "oh don't worry, mama and daddy wouldn't let anything happen to you," and I thought of that little boy. For a minute I thought I'd really gone insane with rage. I just want to do something, and there's nothing to be done. I just don't understand a parent allowing someone else to harm their babies.

Does anyone else ever feel like this? :( I try not to read upsetting things too often (had PND issues with things like this right after DS was born) but sometimes I hear about them anyway and I really just cannot stand it.

OP posts:
Original poster
CheerfulYank · 17/08/2011 17:13

Freudian I will do that, then.

I just keep hugging my little DS today and telling him I love him and he is all "I know Mama, but I am playing lasers right now." :)

OP posts:
barbiegrows · 17/08/2011 17:22

I agree with Freudianslipper. There are loads of organisations out there that will take help from volunteers families that are close to the edge.

Also, don't read detail in these stories - it is normal to be over-sensitive to these when you have your own dcs. In this case I don't blame the drug-addict mother, she clearly had no control and probably never bonded with her child. I blame the men that did the abuse and took advantage of her, they knew exactly what they were doing. I also blame the services for not recognising this woman's addiction. Addicts should never be allowed to have children in their care.

Original poster
CheerfulYank · 18/08/2011 04:43

I blame her.

I blame the men more, of course, since they actually did it, but I hope she goes to jail for a very long time and it never allowed another child.

And I don't know what her not being bonded with him has to do with it really. I've never seen the little guy in my life and am certainly not bonded to him, but I (a perfect stranger) would do anything in my power to have stopped this happening to him.

OP posts:
Morloth · 18/08/2011 04:51

This is MN, CheerfulYank it is always somebody else's fault.

I think I might be getting too cynical these days.

Original poster
CheerfulYank · 18/08/2011 05:08

I think we can try to understand the reasons for WHY things happen, but that doesn't absolve blame. What happened to her son was unspeakable and it is, in a large way, HER fault.

Apparently there were other children in the home. I hope they are all removed and if she has others they are taken at birth.

OP posts:
QueenStromba · 18/08/2011 05:19

The answer to how this happened is very simple. Crystal meth is probably the worst drug out there in terms of addictiveness and bleeding the humanity out you. It's definitely up there with crack. Someone I knew once got ripped off by a crackhead when he was offered "weed" outside a club and was given leaves instead, this bloke threatened to kick the crap out of him and his response was "do your worst, I'm already dead". I was very sad when a friend of mine told me last year that it had become almost mainstream in the gay community here which meant that it was just about to become a big problem here like it is the States. My friend told me that a friend of his had contracted HIV because of his meth usage (apparently it makes you very horny and reckless so he got it from having unsafe sex while high). The stuff is also stupidly expensive so if it properly takes hold here they you can guarantee a rise in burglaries and meth lab explosions.

hairfullofsnakes · 18/08/2011 06:16

Of course you can't understand it. Be glad you don't. I agree that she lost the right to have any more children. They should be locked away for a very long time - as should the rapist. I have a male friend who was raped at four - he is in his forties now and still struggles with what happened so I really fear for that little boy.

I remember when the baby P articles came out I became inconsolable at what had happened to him and couldn't stop thinking about it. Child abusers need severe punishment.

Original poster
CheerfulYank · 18/08/2011 06:31

It's awful enough when terrible things happen to adults, but to imagine a little child feeling such pain and fear...I just get a knot in my throat thinking about it. And I always think that they must all think that their mummy is going to come help them. :(

I can't stand it.

OP posts:
Finallygotaroundtoit · 18/08/2011 07:01

Of course they should be punished but the child has already been hurt by then.
To prevent these horrific cases we need to do everything possible to ensure babies are treated properly.
It's neglect and abuse in the first year of life that makes the brain develop in a way that the person feels no guilt and has no conscience.

When they become a parent, they continue to put themselves and their wants and desires before everything else - including their own child.

Had Baby P survived he would probably have continued the cycle Sad

CogitoErgoSometimes · 18/08/2011 07:25

YANBU because the survival of our species rather relies on us protecting our children rather than harming them. Even wild animals do it. How to prevent it is going to involve early intervention with new parents that are in categories that we know put children at risk... such as drug/alcohol addiction, chaotic lifestyles, history of violence. And the controversial idea that certain people should be offered long-term contraception so that they don't bring children into the world in the first place can't be dismissed. Taking children into care has a checkered track record, sadly.

somewherewest · 18/08/2011 10:01

"The adults concerned live in a different world to you and me. Don't let it get to you".

No, they live in the same world. Abuse can happen anywhere. Many people would like to think that its just the stereotypical crack addict with nine kids by eight different fathers (ie not 'us', or 'our' family or 'our' friends) but I've heard enough cases of outwardly 'good' and 'normal' parents who turned out to be abusers. Its extremely sad and not always explicable.

FriggFRIGG · 18/08/2011 10:45

CheerfulYank the only thing that makes me feel any better at all,is the thought that some wonderful foster parent has that little boy in their arms right now,he is safe,now,tonight he will sleep in a clean bed,with a full tummy,safe.

but it is still unthinkably awfulSad

treedelivery · 18/08/2011 11:05

I'm aware and informed of all sorts of child protection issues almost every day I go to work. I have to say that I find the huge exceptionally serious cases almost less upsetting than the insipid long term neglect situations.

Those children who suffer these extra serious cases may be rescued in these climatic situations. Although where they will go and if a good life awaits them I don't know. Children 'in care' seem to have the odds stacked against them.
Those in on going situations are just...ongoing. Their families have more children, they go to more respite foster parents, they fail more school, they loose more hope, they become almost doomed to the same life as their parents. The parents in these cases often have the same history their child is gathering.

Working in the maternity sevices - I tell ya. People say 'it must be such a lovely job, all those babies'. Make me want to scream or weep sometimes. Lucky for them though, they have no idea of the real world for some people!

I shouldn't comment, I am a professional afterall. So I don't comment, I just talk a little about the realities that anyone could find out about via the press or somewhere like the Joseph Rowntree foundation if they wished.

What can we do to help? Foster. Foster foster foster. We need safe places for siblings to go to get a break from their life, and their parents a break during which time they may regain some energy to keep trying to do better. Just like all of us do.
If we can't/won't/don't foster - then charities such as childline, the samaritans, even giving toys and clothes to churches/charity shops/outreach groups/playschools and so on. All these things do help in small ways.

treedelivery · 18/08/2011 11:06

When I say I find it less upsetting - I don't. It's horrible, but I don't know how else to say what I mean. IYSWIM?

itisnearlysummer · 18/08/2011 11:55

It is shocking. I wasn't aware of the incident in OP and I'm glad of that.

It's reminded me of a friend of mine several years ago who was looking into adoption. I don't recall the details and we've since lost contact but I remember that a lot of the children she was given details about experienced "profound permanent disabilities" with which they had not been born.

Children who were born without any issues who would now never go to mainstream school, never live independently, never feed themselves, never walk, all at the hands of their parents and the "non accidental injuries" they had suffered.

Absolutely shocking that people can behave in this way.

Original poster
CheerfulYank · 18/08/2011 16:23

Treedelivery DH and I have filled out foster forms but decided to start fostering when our DCs are older. This has made me more determined to do so.

The little boy in question is with a family member now, which honestly worried me but apparently the woman's family has rallied around him and are determined to keep him safe.

The "mother" in question would not tell the authorities who the men were, so AFAIK the police are still looking for them. The authorities are charging the two women with everything they can in order to keep them locked up for as long as possible.

Apparently the two women also waited a day before bringing him in to hospital because they were worried about what would happen to them. Angry

OP posts:
LolaRennt · 18/08/2011 16:30

many drug addicts in the world who are also good parents, no excuse for the story in the OP. Clearly that woman was sick as well as a drug addict. I don't get it either, I just want to cuddle all of them and apolgise for how shit their parents are.

No one has to be a parent, if someone realises they aren't coping there is help or simply giving them up. No one has to contine as a parent that is what I don't understand. Why do something you hate? :(

I think I would like the laws to make it much easier for children to be taken out of homes where violence is occuring and make it much easier for parents to terminate their rights with out stigma. I would never judge a man or woman for giving up a 6 month old when they realised they don't want this. But I ct feel pity for them shaking one and "losing it" temporarily. We all feel like that sometimes. Walk away

maypole1 · 18/08/2011 17:13

LolaRennt by defatition of being a drug addict you are a bad parent

Sorry nonsuch thing a a good drunk parent or a good druggy parent

RitaMorgan · 18/08/2011 17:17

Really maypole? Just illegal drugs or all drugs?

There are plenty of drug addicts who are good (enough) parents.

barbiegrows · 19/08/2011 00:07

many drug addicts in the world who are also good parents

I know I should ignore this, but this is a paradox or at best, a contradiction in terms.

If you can't foster, try to get to contact Home-start, who will help support families on the edge. www.home-start.org.uk/homepage

Original poster
CheerfulYank · 19/08/2011 04:50

I'm not in the UK. I looked at the US version of Home Start, and it's only in California. But I'll donate for now while I'm searching. Thanks for the idea!

OP posts:
Original poster
CheerfulYank · 28/08/2011 03:51

Just an update, in case anyone is wondering.

There's a facebook group dedicated to helping the little boy in my OP. Apparently he is healing well (physically) and he and his sister are in the care of a loving family member. A fund will be set up for him to help with, I assume, therapy costs, etc.

I am still so upset and horrified that this has happened but glad that the abuse was discovered before it was another Baby P or similar. I'm glad that, for now, the public seems to be keeping their eye on it (emailing and calling for the maximum possible sentences, etc) so that he will hopefully not fall through the cracks.

OP posts:
kickassangel · 28/08/2011 05:05

Cheerful, (I'm not stalking you, just keep finding threads you're on), you need to remember that these are rare cases. No less traumatic but thank goodness they are rare enough to be news worthy.

Also, I think good foster families are so important. I could not do it, I have good friends who foster and it takes a huge emotional toll. It is better for yourchildren and any that you foster If yours are a bit older.

My sil works in psychiatric nursing and she says that thee are some people who are just 'wired' differently and have kittle or no empathy. She has years of training and experience. Thank goodness there are people like her tosupport those who need it, and intervene when needed.

You need to be aware of how grim life can be without letting it get you down. Raising 2 healthy considerate kidsis a contribution you can make so don't underestimate it

barbiegrows · 31/08/2011 17:57

No they are not rare at all! Two children a week die at the hands of their parents, goodness knows what happens to the ones that aren't on the list. That's in this country, the known cases. The more we can do to raise awareness and support these children the better. People who have no empathy shouldn't have children, and if they do, shouldn't be their main carer. Simples.

I think in the US children are taken into care more quickly than in the UK, but there are probably a lot more off the radar than over here, where we're all in each others business.

dorie · 31/08/2011 18:34

A mothers number 1 priority is to protect her children. Those that don't deserve to have the children taken off them. All too sadly children suffer before this happens.

God I hate parents who put others/drugs/lifestyle/own needs before their children. SCUM OF THE EARTH! And they come on public forums, such as this, complaining about social services taking their kids!!