to think I should not be threatened with a ban for questioning the use of offensive language?

[thefirstMrsDeVere]

I am a member of a very heavily moderated website. Swearing is not allowed at all, threads are pulled regularly if people are mean to each other, not threads about threads are tolerated and you are not allowed to mention anything said before on the boards at all. All these things will result in deletion and warnings.

I have been a member for years (before mumsnet even). There was a particularly nasty thread that was allowed to go on for pages which ended with a woman referring to children with LDs as 'being tapped in the head'..

I started a seperate thread wanting to discuss the use of disabilist language on the site and asking why words like bitch, whore and piss were not allowed yet retard, mong and spaz were.

I was told that some people might think it was ok to use those words so they couldnt filter them out, it wouldnt be fair.

I continuned to question this in a firm but polite manner and have now discovered I have been sent a message telling me that my style of posting is offensive and I have been taken straight to a final warning!

Not that I give a toss, the site is crap. I guess I am taken aback that you can be pretty much threatened into silence if you dare question the mods on this HUGE and well known site.

Its an issue that means a lot to me. If it was a site on which everything went language wise I wouldnt have bothered. But on this prissy site where you cant say bugger - you can call something retarded or monged out with no bother.

I think its bollocks and makes me glad I have mumsnet to come and tell people to fuck off on.

I use NM regularly for the local and buying and selling stuff. Used to read the boards, although never really commented much (I would have been banned within days!) when my little girl was newborn and was on mat leave. I was even directed there by my HV when I had PND and PTSD (woe betide she says anything to me again about them....)
However I have to say since finding MN I rarely even look at the coffee house now. It's quite frankly shit compared to this place. But I can sort of see why the threads are all shit as you can never get a decent debate (and by decent I don't mean benefit bashing/immigrant "debates") as the moderation is absurd.

You see you question MNHQ here and you get a reasonable, ok sometimes cryptic, but very often witty answer, over there you get bullshit and just for daring to question the mods, you get threatened with a ban.

Have they responded yet? I can't see that page. (Not a member)

Nah me neither, but apparently the mods are discussing it and it may be bay after they've fiddled with it edited.

may be back

No response but it's not been deleted either. Yet.

Who off here started the thread? It says they will be discussing with OP so hopefully we'll get the lowdown on here in any case.

Why do they put kisses on all their messages on netmums? Even the moderators have done that? It makes it look like a bunch of teenage girls are running the thing.

Glad to see the word in question now comes up as stars - better than nothing.

what was that word in question?

another post where I posted mine contained mong and spaz, so they've not been changed.

was it retard?

Looks like they have added retarded to their offensive word filter but not retard........

How bloody odd! I would have thought that "retard" was far more offensive than "retarded", one being a vile name/epithet and the other being an unpleasant adjective! But then it's the same with them *ing out "spastic" but not spaz - I know, let's take out the real words and leave the offensive names in, what a briliant bit of thinking

they really don't get it do they?

why can't they see that by allowing those words through their swear filter, they're laready telling members that those words and opinions are okay?

thy have to be challenged, seeing as they can't challenge through intellignet thought

SB - did you bring up this discussion or leave it well alone?

They should all petition NM mods then and tell them that they want them filtered. Can't believe someone was so partisan that they gave you the look when you said you were on MN!! It's not bloody football clubs now, is it?!

Thumbwitch you get that look here for being a nmer

Lola - but that's justified

I never said it wasn't....

Yeah, but that's in here, that's different from out there in RL! If someone told me they were a nethun in RL, I wouldn't raise an eyebrow at them!

i always try to get them over here

TimeForMeIsFree

Well, so much for free speech eh? Free to speak as long as it suits Netmums.

Just so.

Seems my previous comment about Orwell now seems to apply to more than just NM.

the offensive words are now asterisked.

and there's a comment about this running commentary!

oo, can you do an open link so I can see the thread title? I can't use the links without logging in and I can't remember my login details; but if I go through the main pages I can read it.

www.netmums.com/coffeehouse/coffeehouse-help-desk-1/ask-moderators-4/623447-why-free-speech-thread-deleted.html#post6454178

hannah a(108)

why was the free speech thread deleted?

Please can you explain why the free speech thread was deleted?

Aside from one poster whose opinions could be construed as offensive, there was a great deal of debate and thoughtful posting around the subject of disabilist language and its use/allowance on this site.

I also thought that there were a few good suggestions for forum users and forum moderators that might have profited from further exploration.

Finally, one of the key subjects was censorship and whether it is acceptable and to what degree, whether that's self censorship or imposed censorship.

By removing the thread, it would appear that the website owners/moderators wish to stifle debate and not encourage it, which is very disappointing. 

Chelle

Hi Hannah

If a thread is removed it is nothing to do with stifling debate etc.If a thread is removed it is either because the original poster has requested it OR there is content in there which is against the rules and needs discussing or editing by the moderating team. 

hannah a(108)

I'd be grateful if you could clarify which of the scenarios is true in the case of that thread, please.

And, if it is because a rule has been broken, which one? 

Chelle

Hi Hannah

Unfortunatly this isn't something that I can discuss with you.The original poster of the thread will have been contacted though to let her know what is happening with the thread. 

claire f(354)

Agree with the op.
This thread and some of the attidutes on it were truly ignorant.
The reason that some people believe that it is acceptable to use words such as <strong>*</strong><strong>*</strong> is because they are not challenged.
I also find it very telling that not one 'offical' form Netmums could spare the time to explain the rationale of allowing such disablist terms to be allowed.
I am the mother of a severely disabled child and I for one, am fed up to the back teeth of having to educate people.
Not good Netmums, not good at all.
This is doing your credibility as a parenting website no good at all.

Edit. Excellent that word is now asterixed. An explanation from an official bod at NM's would be appreciated by many I am sure. 

Last edited by claire f(354); Today at 12:55. 

juliette l(19)

So once discussed and edited the thread will be back? 

hannah a(108)

Chelle,

Thanks for getting back to me.

I hope the thread will soon be back for discussion. 

Chelle

Quote Originally Posted by claire f(354) View Post
Agree with the op.
This thread and some of the attidutes on it were truly ignorant.
The reason that some people believe that it is acceptable to use words such as <strong>*</strong><strong>*</strong> is because they are not challenged.
I also find it very telling that not one 'offical' form Netmums could spare the time to explain the rationale of allowing such disablist terms to be allowed.
I am the mother of a severely disabled child and I for one, am fed up to the back teeth of having to educate people.
Not good Netmums, not good at all.
This is doing your credibility as a parenting website no good at all.

Edit. Excellent that word is now asterixed. An explanation from an official bod at NM's would be appreciated by many I am sure.
Hi Claire

Can I assure you that this is something that has been discussed at great lengths with all the team this morning x 

hannah a(108)

Chelle,

In the interests of transparency, it would be great if you and the Netmums team could share your discussions with your customers. This is a very important issue to many, and in addition one of your customers has been temporarily banned for discussing it in an open forum.

This behind closed doors approach, including removing a thread without comment on it makes me feel very uncomfortable about the moderation process here and the ethos of this site.

thanks 

Charis M(7)

So this means words like '<strong>*</strong><strong>', '</strong><strong>*</strong>' etc can be properly discussed? 

Andrea D(74)

I would be quite interested to know the outcome of the discussions too.
It's a realyl important subject - definitely shouldn't be swept under the carpt or hidden away.

It also showed some members of the forum ina very poor light - not those wishing to debate, but those whosse opinions were outdated andoffensive.

I will be very happy if the offensive words were asterisked. 

Coffeehouse Team

Hello, thank you for all your recent feedback regarding our word censor. We are sorry that some of you felt that our word censor was not effective enough at filtering out offensive words on our forum boards.

Our word censor has always mainly been used to filter out the most common offensive swear related words from being displayed on our forum boards. We have always tried to encourage our members to post in a responsible manner, without resorting to using offensive phrases and to report anyone who has breaches the forum rules/netiquette.

Recently it has become apparent that some people do feel that certain words should not be allowed on the forum boards as these are offensive and upsetting to the people they are referring to/or are aimed at.

As a result of the feedback, this has been discussed by the Netmums team as a whole and we have now added these words to our censor.

We would ask that if anyone does come across any posts which contain words they feel are offensive and may need to be added to our censor, that they use the report it icon on the post in question, to bring this to our attention. We will then edit or remove the post and consider adding the word in question to our list of filtered words.

We must also point out that we have removed the word spastic from the censor, following feedback from some of our members, who have children with related medical conditions who have mentioned that they would like to be able to type the name of their child's condition into our boards without it being filtered. 

Andrea D(74)

I'm just testing the new swear filter.

does this mena that if i type <strong>*</strong><strong> or </strong><strong>*</strong> or <strong>*</strong><strong>*</strong> in then it will be removed?

what about the racist term <strong>*</strong><strong>*</strong>?

thank you for taking this matter seriously. 

Mattie D

I think that there are perhaps too many words that could be censored.

One would hope that during the course of a discussion that nobody would lower themselves to calling a person with a disability or anyone else for that matter a derogatory term.

If someone does resort to name calling then the report button is there to use, or indeed you can report the post yourself if you have said something in hindsight that you regret.

Swear words don't bother me at all. I'd like to think that if anyone was called a <strong>*</strong><strong>, </strong><strong>*</strong>, <strong>*</strong><strong>*</strong>, or any other such word, that they'd have the sense to think well that other person has lowered themselves, let everyone see their true colours and either report it or rise above it. 

Charis M(7)

So unacceptable words censored include:

<strong>*</strong>*
<strong>*</strong>*
<strong>*</strong><strong>*</strong>
<strong>*</strong><strong>*</strong>
<strong>*</strong>* etc

If so, I am pleased to hear it.

?? 

jennie p(54)

Mods. You seem to have <strong>ed out R E T A R D E D </strong><strong>*</strong><strong>*</strong><strong> but not R E T A R D </strong><strong>*</strong>**. Can you confirm and explain why? 

jennie p(54)

OK so now its the other way around. Confused. 

Chelle

Hi guys.

When we make any changes to the boards,whether it is adding new boards or adding words to the swear filter,it takes awhile for the system to catch up and it can be a bit tempremental until the system uncaches itself.All the requested words have been added to the filter,it may just take a bit for things to catch up x 

Mattie D

waves to MN who have a live commentary on it how funny. 

Andrea D(74)

thank you Mods - I'm really happy that you've taken it seriosuly, and that the offensive words are now blanked out.

Hopefully, it will go some way to guide those posters who don't believe that those words andterms can cause offence.