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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think that a mum of two should not be jailed for

320 replies

Mitmoo · 13/08/2011 11:37

taking a pair of shorts that her friend stole in the riots.

She's got six months.

A young man who took £3.50 worth of water from a ransacked shop got six months.

I want justice, I want those who terrified my family even though we were fortunate enough to only view it through the television screen to be punished but I want some kind of proportionality.

Do we remove mum's from their children for six months because she took a pair of shorts from a friend who had been in the riots?

It was wrong of course, she should have shopped the "friend" but six months????

menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1455638_mum-jailed-for-six-months-for-wearing-pair-of-looted-shorts-

OP posts:
PerryCombover · 13/08/2011 16:48

All of us have done something illegal in our time.

It's interesting how quickly we forget that and become part of a baying mob of idiots

GypsyMoth · 13/08/2011 16:49

Illegal?

People died!

CogitoErgoSometimes · 13/08/2011 16:51

ILT.... Cameron's going with the public mood at the moment which is one of palpable anger at the nation having been humiliated and terrorised by a few hundred yobbos. Tories have traditionally been seen as tough on crime so this appeals to their core voter as well as, more generally, to the 'man on the street'. The people most closely affected by the violence would be insulted if they were to see the ones who had burned them out of their homes still strolling the streets.

On the case raised by the OP... is it right? Without full knowledge of the facts and circumstance and the existence or otherwise of previous form of the person convicted, we have to put our faith in the legal process to make that judgement. So yes, it is probably right.

Georgimama · 13/08/2011 16:51

I think you'll find the baying mob of idiots were the people torching shops, and breaking and entering, not people who dare to think (shock horror) that if you do those things and receive a prison sentence you have pretty much received what was coming to you.

I've never done anything that could result in a custodial sentence, I can assure you. And if I did and was caught, I wouldn't be too surprised if I received one.

wubblybubbly · 13/08/2011 16:52

Keep things in perspective ILT. This woman wasn't involved in the death of anyone, however far you stretch the association.

She ought to be punished for her own wrongdoing, not as some sort of political statement. That's hardly justice.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 13/08/2011 16:54

wubblybubbly... she is being punished for her wrongdoing but it has to be taken in context. Shoplifting a piece of clothing in isolation is a very different offence to participating, however peripherally, in riots and looting.

Currysecret · 13/08/2011 16:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 13/08/2011 16:56

Many of the people convicted this week will get tagged or given community service. Custodial sentences are not handed down lightly, even at the moment.

wubblybubbly · 13/08/2011 16:58

She wasn't shoplifting in anycase. She had nothing to do with the riots or looting. She was charged and found guility of receiving stolen goods.

I could ask whether the press could be charged with inciting civil unrest with their reporting. I think they have a lot more to answer for in the spreading of the looting than this woman does.

Justice should apply to the individual, it shouldn't be thrown about in such a heavy handed manner in order to appease the public. Justice should be beyond politicial interference or it is not justice at all.

WhereYouLeftIt · 13/08/2011 17:02

Quite a few posters have objected to the sentences on the basis that had the theft/fencing not occurred during/after the riots, the sentences would have been far less.

But, surely, that is the point? The offences were part of a riot and as such attracted a heavier penalty. One offence is not a riot. One offender is not a mob. A riot is a total suspension of the rules of society, creating a state of fear far greater than a few burglaries could ever create. A riot is something which has lasting effects out of proportion to the physical damage created. As such, punishment for being part of a riot is much greater than for an equivalent standalone offence.

For the offender mentioned in the OP, her offence was cold-blooded, not heat-of-the-moment. Seriously, if your house-mate turned up with a load of what could only be stolen goods following a riot, what would you do? Tell her to get that stuff the fuck out of your house before she got you both into trouble? Or, casually pick yourself out a nice item?

GypsyMoth · 13/08/2011 17:03

eBay are having none of it either!!

maypole1 · 13/08/2011 17:05

thefirstMrsDeVere sorry but at least these children will get 6 months of knowing right from wrong with in a foster family.

These familes that were out looting and buring peoples homes are broken they clearly cannot look after their children

Birdsgottafly · 13/08/2011 17:14

The DC's are being cared for by family within their home.

I consider myself left wing and can even see Marx's point but the looting (they wasn't riots) should be seen as a separate crime to general theft. The consequences to the looting are far reaching.

Tbh, as well, i would be totaly pissed off if i was in jail for benefit fraud (working on the side) to pay for decent clothes for my DC's, but those involved with the looting walked free from court, to put another slant on it.

molepom · 13/08/2011 17:15

TBH I think it's about time we saw some serious punishments.

Everyone has said at one time or another that the justice system is a joke and that it's no wonder why people dont take it seriously. We would all be moaning if they all got fines and had to wear a tag for a while.

Lets just hope we see some good out of all of this and a little respect for the law wont go amiss either.

SoupDragon · 13/08/2011 17:16

"All of us have done something illegal in our time.

It's interesting how quickly we forget that and become part of a baying mob of idiots"

Whilst I may have done the odd, minor, illegal thing, had I been caught I would have taken the punishment and not bleated about it being unfair.

Original poster
Mitmoo · 13/08/2011 17:17

maypole will they? They will probably go to family and when they find out that their Mum was jailed for taking a pair of stolen shorts, they may well end up as another generation who can't trust the legal system.

OP posts:
SoupDragon · 13/08/2011 17:18

Through an acquaintance, I knew a prolific shop lifter. he saw prison not as a deterrent but simply an occupational hazard.

Birdsgottafly · 13/08/2011 17:18

Looting isn't one crime, it crosses into;
Premeditated offence,
Criminal damage,
threating members of the public/police,
public disorder,
noise pollution,
handling stolen goods,
profiting from the proceeds of crime,
tax evasion,
benefit fraud,
in some cases; resisting arrest,
carrying an offensive weapon
and lets face it littering.

SoupDragon · 13/08/2011 17:19

Or they may grow up seeing that crime = punishment and be basically honest citizens!

Birdsgottafly · 13/08/2011 17:21

I forgot; animal cruelty, 8 police dogs were badley injured.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 13/08/2011 17:24

Birdsgottafly You also forgot 'arson', 'mugging' and 'murder'

Birdsgottafly · 13/08/2011 17:31

cogito-yes, they were just off the top of my head.

CustardCake · 13/08/2011 17:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Birdsgottafly · 13/08/2011 17:39

I thought of six more offences. How many people are now going to be struggling while their businesses are closed or their employers?

The TJ Hughes that was smashed to bits in Salford was hoping for a rescue deal before the last day of trading, now that cannot happen, everyone is out of a job because it cannot be sold as a going concern. There's nothing right wing about wanting those on min wage to wake up in the morning and still have a job to go to.

coccyx · 13/08/2011 17:41

perrycombover speak for yourself, I have never committed a crime.