It's okay Mumsnetters slagging the DM off - but it's the only paper that has nailed it re the rioters...

[didyouseewhatshedid]

A few quotes below from Max Hastings - says it all really...

^So there we have it: a large, amoral, brutalised sub-culture of young British people who lack education because they have no will to learn, and skills which might make them employable
...Liberal opinion holds they are victims, because society has failed to provide them with opportunities to develop their potential.
...this is nonsense. Rather, they are victims of a perverted social ethos, which elevates personal freedom to an absolute, and denies the underclass the discipline ? tough love ? which alone might enable some of its members to escape from the swamp of dependency in which they live.^

breaktime, WHY is it repulsive?

oh and throwing personal insults around as you just did to Limited is pretty pointless if you want to look rational. But with an OP like that...well.

or if insults fail, make it funny ....

er, cos it has all been said before in the 1930s and we know what happened. But so what eh. The Nazis built good roads.

and yes jane, EVERYONE who disagrees with me is a fascist. Including Ds1, the fascist little sod just failed to get into his pyjamas when I told him to. I blame a. him for disagreeing with me and b. those soft lefty parents who encouraged me. Fascists!!!

GODWIN
WODWIN
GODWIN

The Daily Fascist Bastard and "right" should never be in the same sentence unless the word "wing" is directly after right.

What's been said in the 30s? Did you read the original post? FFS

Custardo- who he??

Hedley, I think it should rename itself the Daily Heil and be done with it, it's reading public would love it

Thing is, when people slag the DM off I often think they dont actually read it. Sure, a lot of it is right-wing shite, a lot of it is bigotted, looking to scapegoat immigrents, blah blah. I know all that. But, on some issues - and some writers for the paper - know their stuff. But posters here will never actually know because they just follow the MN line which is that the DM is ALL bad.

BTW - what do you read breaktime? Sorry, let me guess...

I don't dislike Max Hastings didyou. I just find him a bit of a curio. The kind of man who asks his secretary if your father is in Who's Who.

I am aware of his historical writings and I respect some of his works, particularly about the Falklands, because journalists still speak of him as 'the first man into Stanley'.

He's gone off the boil a bit in the last 20 years not helped by the fact that he churns out hackneyed rubbish for the Mail. It gives them a veneer of gravitas and gives him a lot of money. But that's the free market.

He doesn't know anything about modern Britain beyond about 1986 and the bewildering array of people who litter it and that's exactly the way he prefers it.

Oh yeah - then they could all get qualified to apply for all those brilliant jobs on offer

The DM is never, ever, ever "spot on".

Even when they are.

Oh, grow up Ladyofthemanor.

Thing is, when people slag the DM off I often think they dont actually read it.
I do read it (online), as have a particular interest in benefit and welfare matters and like to see what has been said. I read all sorts of articles. My opinion has never changed.

"So there we have it: a large, amoral, brutalised sub-culture of young British people who lack education because they have no will to learn, and skills which might make them employable
...Liberal opinion holds they are victims, because society has failed to provide them with opportunities to develop their potential."

That much is true. The rest is drivel. I don't know the exact demographic breakdown of the looters and rioters, but everyone going on about the millionaire's daughter and the TA are pointing out the exceptions that prove the rule. If they are so notable as individuals, then they must stand out from the crowd.

What the Labour Party failed at more than anything else was in under-publicising the good policies they introduced to tackle youth unemployment, underachievement and poverty. All of these things (Sure start, tax credits, the connexions service...etc) are the first things that have been cut or axed by the Tories. So yes. I do blame them for letting our young people down and it's no wonder that they feel disenfrachised, unrepresented and unprotected by the law. Why respect an authority that thinks nothing of them or their interests?

The answer is not corporal punishment (which is what I assume he means by 'discipline', 'tough love' (whatever that looks like) or any of the Daily Mail's traditional answers to social disorder, it is to give these people a stake in their own communities and some control over their own lives. Surely?

TORY MANIFESTO

When I say like to see I really mean dread to see..........

Saying Max hastings is a good historian is bizarre.

No, I shan't. The DM is for idiots.

I don't read newspapers as a rule but someone emailed me a link for Melanie Phillips' article- and I read it......
It is difficult to see any logic or reasoning in it. For example, she rants about enforcement of drug laws. We have some of the most draconian drug laws in Europe and that has only led to an even more sophisticated and determined class of criminal controlling the black market.
I saw some news footage of parents of rioters this evening. Two of them were fathers.
What exactly is this British culture she lauds and we have apparently lost?
I found the keynote of her ill-informed and bigoted rant near the end. Had she placed it at the start I wouldn't have wasted ten minutes reading the rest:

"Repairing this terrible damage also means, dare I say it, a return to the energetic transmission of Biblical morality."

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2024690/UK-riots-2011-Britains-liberal-intelligentsia-smashed-virtually-social-value.html#ixzz1UkYlvfCF

'Perhaps the teaching assistant and millionaire's daughter also grew up in the same culture of absolute personal freedom and zero discipline?'

Yup. This is what it boils down to. Expecting to be handed everything with no responsibilities or obligations.