To wonder why all benefits are not limited to two children only

[SuzysZoo]

Ok. I know that this is going to be a bit contentious. I don't mean retrospectively either. I just wonder why, in these cash strapped times, the government doesn't just say that all benefits, child benefit etc should be limited IN THE FUTURE, IN AT LEAST 9 MONTHS TIME, to 2 children per family only...... My point being that if you have more you should support them yourself. AIBU?

You're in luck then because that's what we're doing at the moment.

Which is exactly as it should be.

I agree but that doesn't mean we should abandon the debate about how we can reduce the number of the 'irresponsible' whilst still supporting the unfortunate.

So Northerngirl, did you use or are planning to use:
? no NHS or state resources in your pregnancy, childbirth and post-natal care?
? no state education for your children?
? no student loan for your children?
? no NHS for your children?
? no child benefit for your children?

Because unless you can answer Yes to every one of those questions (or remain childless), YOU are the one assuming the taxpayer will pick up the bill for your children.

I think the OP is unreasonable.

The sole point of child benefit is to benefit the child. It is not about population growth limitation or anything to do with parents really. Used properly the money should all go to the children and why should the child lose out because he/she has more than one sibling?

I agree that perhaps child benefit might perhaps not always be used wisely/ properly by all parents, but that's another issue entirely.

If you're talking about limiting population growth and putting less strain on the economy why not take away child benefits altogether and use the money to fund pensions for childless couples instead... [sarcastic grin emoticon]

i not even going to raise my blood pressure by reading this whole thread but as a disabled mother of 3 (cooking number 4 (yes was a surprise but im disabled not infertile), i find even comments on the first page insulting!!!

i do not choose a disability but should i have then not chosen to have children. i would work if some bastard out there would give me a chance. there is nothing i would love more than to provide for my own children, which i have done before and as soon a my disabilities interfere with my work the boss goes mental and 'lets me go'. i then run up arrears on rent etc whilst benefits get sorted out again and it all turns into a nightmare.

We all use the state for all sorts of things. We all pay for it through our taxes too. We don't all use the same state funded services equally. Why is it the cost of children that's focussed on?

And, of course, these children will grow up and be tax payers and contribute to the system they've benefitted from.

When people get nothing (in terms of support), they are less inclined to give anything back when times are good.

Well most parents we know in our social circle just put their CB straight into a savings account for their DCs. Is this a responsible use of it? These parents are all fairly affluent and yet the government are effectively funding a savings account for their already priviledged kids.

We claim but the exact money goes straight out to a split between Shelter and a children's charity. Maybe we're just as irresponsible!

well said karma, as always.

YABU of course. Not everyone on benefits is popping out kids just to get more money. In reality, it's probably a tiny minority.

Yes, there are people who have never worked and never intend to, but the solution is to educate their children, not abandon them.

I think if you cut benefits, even more people will end up feeling hard done by and disenfranchised.

Perhaps if they stopped all child related benefits then everybody who wants a child has to support it financially as well as emotionally. That way you can have as many or as few as you want and everyone is treated the same.

I dont but the argument that all the children raised on benefits will pay it all back in taxes when they are working as many wont work as they dont grow up in households with work ethics, many will copy their parents and have chidlren at an early age that they cant support etc so the cycle of take continues.

A friend of mine has 5 children, both her and her dh have worked full constantly since leaving uni, and during, apart for maternity leave. Both of them where made redundant at the end of march as both worked for local council, neither have been able to get another job so have had to sign on benefits. They have supported their children themselves since they where born with no benefits. It is not their or their dcs fault they are in this position, they have no choice but to claim, why should there dcs suffer, which is what would happen if the OP had her way.

"Perhaps if they stopped all child related benefits then everybody who wants a child has to support it financially as well as emotionally. That way you can have as many or as few as you want and everyone is treated the same."

So (at the risk of repeating myself) what happens to the children of parents who, for whatever reason, disregard this and have children they cannot financially provide for?

well it hasn't been tried yet so maybe those who won't work will use some contraception if they will not get the benefits or how about a modern day workhouse (joke in very bad taste)

Zukiecat, I know people who've done it. They genuinely say that it is the easiest way for them to get the equivalent of a pay rise.

There's no benefit to society or the planet of anyone having more than 2 children so there's no reason to encourage it.

CB should be stopped at 2.

keepingup, of course they should be supported but I have also known people in their circumstances who when they say, 'cannot get another job' what they mean is 'cannot get another similar job'. If they are now both at home, surely one can take on bar work or evening shelf stacking or something. Or do these jobs not exist anymore?

I'm not saying this is the case with your friends but we know of one guy made redundant from his 40k job who simply refuses to take the job in the care home for minimum wage that he was offered. He sees this as an insult to his MBA but when you have kids and no job surely you need to take what is available?

It's an interesting POV OP - not one I necessarily support; I have 3 children after all. Though when I had them the only benefit available was CB.

Do countries who don't have child benefit or unlimited unemployment benefit, Spain for example, have smaller families?

But Zukiecat, surely they have life assurance? If I died, dh would probably have to give up work in the short term but that's what life assurance is for. I'm a sahm but we still have LA covering me. Surely even if you cut back on most things, you keep LA in place?

And I'm sorry for your friend's loss.

Not that it's any of your business, QueenOfAllBiscuitsAndMuffins, but i am having DC5 because manshape and i chose to. FWIW, i'm due to have a major op on my back next year and once that happens i'm hoping that i can return to work, at least part time. That together with the fact that manshape is working will mean that you no longer have to support me or my three children - good news, eh?

I have a sil that has 5 dc, she has never had a job in her life and thinks that is her right, her h can't work as she cannot look after all the dc on her own and needs him at home. He is now off with a bad back. (yes that old chestnut)
I also have a sister who has 2 dc both have always had jobs, she goes out to work in the evenings when he is home, they would love another dc but since their employers would not agree to increase wages to accomodate another mouth to feed it h as to be a dream because THEY CAN'T AFFORD IT and neither can our welfare state afford it. I was brought up to believe the welfare state was a cushion to help if you got into difficulties, now it seems to be a great big luxury feather topped bed for some.
ps i think that was the ops point.

carpetlover have you any idea how had it is to even get regular bar work at the minute? 3 bars in my local town have shut down in the last 12 months. 2 chip shops the same. there were 7 positions available in my local asda 4 months ago. over 250 people applied for them.