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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to my neighbour?

75 replies

donotlikeit · 05/08/2011 16:02

Long post - sorry!

We bought an apartment a couple of months back. It is an older property divided into two flats. We have the upstairs one. The owner downstairs X owns a building repair company and rents his flat out to one of his workers. He has owned the place for 2-3 years.

A couple of weeks back I got a knock on my door. X had some problem with water blockage downstairs. Apparently water is backing up in the kitchen downstairs and not draining properly. I told him to speak with DH regarding it. But also told him that if he wanted to charge for anything as communal repairs, he would need to send us an invoice first for us to agree on, and we would prefer a neutral third party company to do the work.

A day later, some guys come and did the work of pressure cleaning the drain and repairing an iron pipe that had cracked a bit with age.

A week later X knocks again on my door, and said that the tenant below was on holiday and the apartment below was flooded as his kitchen sink had backed up with water, and we musn't throw cooking oil/lard down the sink. We never deepfry anything. We are vegetarian and pretty much bake everything. And in any case, even if we did use oil, we would never throw it down the sink. So I was quite offended and told him that we know how to manage our apartment and we are not stupid to throw stuff down the sink. I an Asian, and I felt that he thought I was lying and frying pakoras all the time Hmm.

DH contacted X and said that if the drains downstairs had backed up again, it really has nothing to do with us, and the repair guys didn't do a proper job. It seems all was ok.

Well, today we got a bill from X for £300 as as our share of the drainage work and the changing of one pipe on an outside wall. In that letter, was a long explanation on how his kitchen was damaged. I called him up and said that the bill was too high and that a) the drainage blockage in his apartment was really not our issue b) I was not comfortable with him using his own company workers, we would have preferred a neutral third party quote c) I would be willing to share the material cost of replacing the split pipe, but that would be it.

X got quite aggressive on the phone and saying he had done us a favour and we now didn't want to pay and that I was insulting him. I told him I did not want him to raise his voice with me and that in future I did not want him knocking on my door and that he should set up a time to come by when DH is around to resolve any communal issue. And I put down the phone.

Guess what, 20 minutes later, a knock on my door and there X was, asking for money and generally being an arse. I told him that I had told him not to come by when I am alone at the home, and next time I would call the police.

I am usually quite calm but this guy really riles me up. He is aggressive, a bit sneering and generally seems a bit of a loose cannon. Also, I work from home and do not want to be disturbed without prior notice, except if there is an emergency.

So,
AIBU to have said I will call the police if he makes a nuisance of himself again?
AIBU to not want to pay £300 for something that I am not clear is a communal issue?
AIBU to not give a rat's arse about the condition of the kitchen below and think that it is really not my problem?

OP posts:
donotlikeit · 05/08/2011 17:30

Thanks posters for your support and telling me I am not being completely unreasonable regarding my comment on calling the police in future. I feel really bad about it and have never said something like that before to anyoneSad

Also thanks to the poster who gave an estimate on the cost, that is a big help.

For those who asked, the flat is freehold.

OP posts:
Gissabreak · 05/08/2011 17:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

AgentZigzag · 05/08/2011 17:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

paddypoopants · 05/08/2011 17:36

Ok- I think you need to separate the two issues you have - his dealings with the drains and the fact you perceive him to be racist. He may well be racist or he could be just be a good old fashioned misogynist or a bully in general or none of the above. You need to deal with the drain issue without letting your judgement be clouded by your perceptions of him.
You need to get a break down of work that has been done and costings, then you need to get an independent plumber in to tell you what's what. Then you need to find out your obligations regarding communal repairs and drains in general as pertains to your situation. I have to say it does sound totally dodgy and you are right you need to get your dh to deal with it.

DrPolidori · 05/08/2011 17:39

Agent, I do not think it is your place to determine whether someone from an ethnic minority is experiencing racism or not....

I think her explanation was reasonable. Ignorant men look down on women any way, if they are from an ethnic minority, hey just makes it worse.

Pendeen · 05/08/2011 17:40

OP are you sure it is actually "freehold" or is it in reality, commonhold? A freehold first floor flat does not make sense.

How are you supposed to deal with these issues of common services, exterior repairs, access, comon parts and so on?

And I still don't get your point about 'X' being a racist simply because (a) you have a PhD and he doesn't (b) he has more money than you, (c) he is a tradesman and (d) he believes you poured oil into the sink waste?

Gissabreak · 05/08/2011 17:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

donotlikeit · 05/08/2011 18:11

Agent,

No don't get me wrong. I take racism from everyone who dishes it to me, because how do you react? What can you say? I felt like shit that X automatically assumed that I throw fat down the sink and am lying. On what basis is he making that judgement? In my opinion, it is because I am Asian. I can never be sure, that is why I just said I am not lying and left it. The thing is in RL you can never really call out anyone for being prejudiced and judging your behavior based on racial stereotypes. This is true whether the person who is being condescending is rich, poor, upper class, lower class, your boss or a store keeper. In fact you always doubt yourself and wonder, did I cross some boundaries, am I being too sensitive etc.

My DH comes from a working class family. I paid for university by being a restaurant waitress and saving the tips to pay for food and board. So I am certainly not from a rich family either.

The example of my boss was just to show that I try not be over sensitive and cry racism around every corner. And to be honest, in that case I felt he related to me as me, not as a woman and not as an Asian, but as an equally competent colleague, despite his views. In fact my original post was not whether X is being racist, but whether he was being unreasonable.

To be honest, I found it bizarre that X was so friendly to my DH and quite aggressive with me. DH is white and he also has noticed on the rare occasion that someone is being racist towards me. If he felt I was being overly sensitive he would let me know. In this case, he thought too that X was being out of line and that X felt he did not need to show me any respect as a neighbor.

OP posts:
donotlikeit · 05/08/2011 18:14

Just to add, I NEVER discuss racism in real life with people outside my family. I should probably extend that to virtual life as well.

OP posts:
DrPolidori · 05/08/2011 18:20

donot, I think agent doesn't really get it. It's like a man telling I am overreacting because another man has said/done something I experience as sexist.

Just not his place.

The dominant social force cannot presume to understand how the weaker social force experiences their entrenched bigotry. It can be so subtle, but so there...

Your instincts flared up, and probably with good reason. People are always saying here "go with your gut" what on earth is wrong on going with your gut when it comes to racism? You know better than any of us what that is like, I could never presume to tell you whether you were BU.

Just as I would tell any bloke who thought I might being prickly, I'd just say try being a woman for day and see how you like it mate.

AgentZigzag · 05/08/2011 18:31

What a lot of tosh you're talking DrP.

What I don't get is how someone can think it's OK to interpret someones actions and words as racist on 'instinct' and with no evidence to back up that assumption.

And the man being working class, made a bit of cash and doesn't have an education to a high level is not evidence of any racism.

Maybe the bloke is a bit Hmm with the OP because she's treating him like a racist when he's no such thing.

(I'll PM you back Gissabreak)

breatheslowly · 05/08/2011 18:34

I do understand your point about racism. I think that there are plenty of people out there who are racist. There are also lots of people who wouldn't have considered themselves as racist but still have a them and us attitude. There is the possibility that your friend's wife just doesn't like you and your race is irrelevant.

But you do need to leave all of that aside and get this issue sorted. There is no way I would pay £300 to someone who just demanded it like that.

G1nger · 05/08/2011 18:36

I don't think you should be so apologetic, OP. I can tell when someone's looking down at me for being a woman. I'm sure you know what racism feels like.

DrPolidori · 05/08/2011 18:36

Oh, tosh is it? You know what it is to experience racism? you think you know? You think you have the right to tell someone of an ethic minority they are WRONG?

Get over yourself!

What evidence do you need?

His Fully Certified I AM A Bigot Diploma?

She felt bullied by his implied criticism that she must be chucking oil down the sink. Note. No evidence of that. Just his assumption. And desire to pass the buck. He was using his racism to bully her.

WhereYouLeftIt · 05/08/2011 18:38

"OP are you sure it is actually "freehold" or is it in reality, commonhold? A freehold first floor flat does not make sense."

Pendeen, my last home was the same as this. An old house that had been split into two, the ground floor was one flat and the first and second floor were another. The freehold was owned jointly by the two flats, so there was no management company, just an agreement between the two owners to share the costs of anything "structural", e.g. we halved the costs of a new front door.

Plus, if the OP is in Scotland, the concepts of freehold/commonhold are non-existent very different.

AgentZigzag · 05/08/2011 18:42

You're making a presumption I'm not from an ethnic minority there DrP.

And you're talking more rubbish.

donotlikeit · 05/08/2011 18:43

Whatever Agent, the race thing is a side issue here.

Good to know that many of you think X seems to be OTT in his charges, so will definitely do more research.

I really don't want to pay every time the downstairs sink gets clogged up, so will also try to understand what constitutes common repair areas.

Thanks everyone, some great advice here.

OP posts:
DrPolidori · 05/08/2011 18:45

Ah well, Agent, collude with the oppressors if it makes you feel any better. But I am guessing you have very little overview on the power politics of everyday life when it comes to bigotry of any kind.

And no, I am not talking rubbish. I am talking sense.

How dare you be so rude to the OP? breathtaking cheek. And arrogance.

RevoltingPeasant · 05/08/2011 18:46

OP, two things, given how this seems to be going: contact an independent plumber THIS WEEKEND and get down to CAB if you can, too, with your property deeds.

I agree with others that this might turn nasty, and you should be prepare.

As for the racism angle: I don't know, I wasn't there, only you were. However, I can often tell when an older male colleague, GP, or similar is talking down to me because I am a woman. There is a little smirk, a tendency to talk over the end of my sentences, a slightly over-exaggerated gallantry, etc. I'm sure many of the women on here who work in professional environments will recognise what I mean. It's a well-mannerd, possibly even subconscious, sexism.

You seem reasonable and smart and you've lived in an Asian skin for at least a couple of decades now I'm guessing, so I'd say your reactions are probably to be trusted.

AgentZigzag · 05/08/2011 18:47

I really am laughing at your posts DrP Grin

You really do have an over inflated sense of outrage Grin

Very good.

DrPolidori · 05/08/2011 18:50

Sorry OP, to have got sidetracked. yes indeed, if there is a commonality of freehold, then their is protocol for any works done. If he owns the freehold, then again, he is obliged to obtain for than one quote, and to get your agreement as to the works undertaken.

janelikesjam · 05/08/2011 18:55

donotlikeit, yes, hopefully wait till things calm down, and you can look at the facts re. who is responsible for what (I don't understand plumbing etc).

hopefully he will calm down and realise he is being a jerk.

By the way, i had a problem with an aggressive male neighbour the other day. I was on my own (correction: I AM on my own). As the dispute escaled (he escalated it) he became intimidating and I threatened to call the police. When he did not leave me alone, shouting in my face, I did call the police. So I do understand how you must have felt ...

pchip · 05/08/2011 18:56

OP, from your posts, I'm reading:

1/ you no clue how the plumbing works and whether your could or couldn't have actions have caused the blockage

2/ you did not have any qualified professional come and assess the problem to verify the professional assessment of your downstairs neighbour (who is a professional in this field and owns his own company)

3/ an emergency situation arose where the downstairs tenants were out and there was flooding, requiring immediate repair, and your downstairs neighbour took action to remedy the situation.

4/ When presented with a bill for that emergency situation, you decided without any proof that you are not responsible for your share of the bill

It seems to me that your neighbour is insulted because you have admitted you have no knowledge of plumbing, yet you dismissed his professional opinion outright by decided without any evidence/basis you shouldn't be responsible for reimbursing him for his labour costs (just because he owns the company, doesn't mean he didn't incurr any costs.)

I agree the amount charged seems excessive -- so why not simply call another professional to assess the charges instead of jumping to the conclusion that your neighbour is trying to overcharge you or focusing on his tone, etc?

DrPolidori · 05/08/2011 18:58

what proof did HE provide to show it was HER fault? None.

It you decide to take matters into your own hand, you then accept liability for those actions.

donotlikeit · 05/08/2011 19:19

Pchip,

True, I do not know how plumbing works, and he knows more than I do. But I do have some common sense and know that we could not have blocked drains by minimal, healthy cooking. We tend to eat out most times anyway, because I can't be arsed to cook.

True, a 1910 building can have eccentricities, but these should be discussed rationally and calmly. Since we both have equal freehold, shouldn't X discuss things calmly and not bully me into accepting responsibility?

We did have a plumber over when we bought the flat to check on the hot water tank in the attic, time for another chat with him.

Will also check with CAB and see what to do next.

Thanks so much everyone!

OP posts:
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