to think that wheelchairs should be priority on buses?

[mamadivazback]

My DS and I were on the bus today coming home from the town when I noticed a woman I vaguely know to speak to in the queue behind about 8 people with her 6YO DD who is in a narrow childs wheelchair and her DP with 2 year old son in small stroller so we waved, as you do.

Now the bus was about half full and 2 girls got on with their children in pushchairs, one with a very large Emmaljunga type and the other with a stroller and both children were happily sitting up by themselves and looked to be about 18 months old but neither thought to fold their pushchair when the lady tried to get her DD on, she had taken her DS out so she could fold pushchair and all sit together but the bus driver told her she could not get on as there were already 2 pushchairs onboard so she had to wait behind in the rain for the next bus.

I know pushchairs are entitled to use the bus but I thought you had to fold them if a wheelchair user was getting on and was quite shocked when the bus driver refused her a ticket, I spoke to her later on and she said it has happened a few times and it's just bad luck but I really don't think it's fair.

better still how about a mn campaign to educate parents that wheelchairs cannot be folded.

Maclaren were designed exactly for that reason, to be able to be folded by a woman on her own. I think the original was created by a grandfather, watching his daughter try and cope, and thinking 'There's got to be a better way'

'POG, Posie was playing devil's advocate.'

She was very convincing.

uk.maclarenbaby.com/the-original-buggy/article/master-db/54
Folded up like an umbrella to liberate women...

Well I cycled through both my pregnancies so perhaps I count as an APW as well? I shall do my own Southern Bragging to balance things out.

2shoes - I missed your earlier post!

Someone mentioned earlier that increasing accessibility for wheelchairs would reduce space for others. Not necessarily. As I said earlier, we have a row of about 6 fold-up seats for wheelchairs/ buggies. When the bus is packed, there's plenty of room for people to stand in the folded seat section - more so than if there were seats there. The question is whether people are willing to give up a seat to enable someone else to get on the bus, and I think the consensus is that people Can't Be Arsed.

surely receiving DLA stops you having to be in this position, thats one of the advantages of getting it. To catch the bus into town costs me and my daughter (who gets DLA) £3.30, we would have to make our way to the next estate for the bus stop and hope it turns up. It then goes round about the houses and we end up in town 15mins later. If we catch a taxi it comes to the door when we want it and it takes 5mins to get into town and costs £3.60 well worth the extra 30p. Catching a bus is no longer the cheapest way imo

speedy

6 folding seats sounds fab, all buses should be like that :-)

TimeWasting is right,nooneon this thread said buggy users shouldn't give up the space to a wheelchair.

I described how being the buggy user with an unfolding pram trying to get to the hospital on the only transport available is a nightmare.
And that having an unfolding pram wasn't a choice and I wasn't an idiot, or selfish, or inconsiderate for daring to board with that pram, it was the only option.

It is great, mumof2. In theory you could probably fit 6 Maclarens on at one time, or 4 Maclarens and a wheelchair. But they don't allow that many buggies, which is partly why, I suppose, so many lazy-arsed, 'entitled' people fail to move for people who need room.

The 6 seats idea is great but if does reduce seats for other passengers. All well and good saying it provides more space for standing but for some people, especially older people, standing is dangerous and/or impossible. It's all well and good saying people should give up seats but a) not everyone will and b) some people have conditions where they look fine but struggle and nobody would know to give up a seat.

Like I said there is no easy solution that will keep everyone happy

I am totally amazed by how some people have been treated or witnessed other people being treated on buses! I've never seen anything like it. The rudeness and ignorance of some people (not posters!) is beyond belief.

It's a very simple issue in my mind -

• the space belongs to the wheelchair user because disability activists are the ones who campaigned to get it and it is called a wheelchair space.
• the vast majority of the time pushchair users are lucky enough to be able to benefit from the space because not very many use wheelchairs and only a few of those who do use buses. *If a pushchair user encounters a wheelchair user then it is tough luck, they should prepare to fold or get off.

I know there are special circumstances and times when the parent and child WILL be in greater need than the wheelchair user. But the wheelchair user is an actual person and is either capable of making logical and rational choices him/herself or, if not, has a parent/carer with them who can make those choices. If that wheelchair user/carer decides that they can more easily give up the space or wait than the mother can then great, good for them. But it should be their decision to make, not the parent with the pushchair's.

I experienced a wheelchair user giving way to me when I had a sleeping one year old in a pushchair. I was only 20 and a university student but I was quite severely anorexic and looked it. I had a lot of shopping and library books in the pushchair, had been walking around all day and probably looked like I was about to faint. I had been on the bus for about 2 stops with 4 or 5 to go including a big hill when I saw a wheelchair user waiting at the stop. This particular man was probably about 35, perfectly fit and healthy looking, mentally developmentally normal etc. he just couldn't walk. I started to move things off the chair but he shouted up not to wake the child, there'd be another bus in a bit and he could wait. I was exhausted enough to thank him and sit back down. Maybe I shouldn't have let him do that but I think there perhaps was a hierarchy of need there that he made the choice to recognise. He undoubtedly had the right to the space but he was perfectly able wait and was nice enough to do so. Had it been a child in a wheechair, someone with multiple disabilities or had the weather been bad then I think it would have been entirely different.

People like mumof2 have described situations of genuine stress and difficulty that probably did mean they needed the space more than some wheelchair users. It doesn't mean they were entitled to it but does mean that, morally and humanely, the blanket rule can at times be altered by the wheelchair users themselves showing compassion if they feel they can and would like to.

I'm lucky enough to have a car now but I would be intrigued to know what happens on the bus in my village because there's only one a day. No waiting for the next bus option here!

Sirzy, I can't remember if I mentioned up thread, but buses on some routes around here have wheelchair space and folding seats for about half of the lower deck.

I can't actually see that losing that many seats would be a problem.
Rush hour tends to be when workers and students are on the buses, therefore able to stand. The times when elderly people and mums with pushchairs get on buses tend to be during the day.
It really is a better solution as far as I can see.

As well as benefiting wheelchair users and mums, more space on buses benefits the elderly, and other trolley pullers, people going to the train station with their luggage and people with bulky items to carry.
It would increase the type of passengers able to travel, therefore increasing potential income for the bus companies. Win-win.

Buses here are full through the day as there aren't that many buses so when they come they are full so reducing the number of seats would cause problems here.

Sirzy, solution to that would be to increase the number of buses then.

Thanks for clearing that Altinkum. My DS2 is not entitled to a blue badge, but he does has a free bus pass, which he can use at any time as he i a student.

Perhaps in the baby books (MUMSNET) there could be a section on pushchairs and how to choose, including folding ease to get on a bus????

Maybe mn should do a campaign. Us disabled people have done ours. My dd is like A describes above. Not only do we cope with the bus we have to find somewhere to change her nappy. She is 7 and i cannot lift her in and out of her wheelchair. Or we tube feed her and watch the stares.
Perhaos the campaign should be for easily foldeable buggies? Even the double macalren i had years back fokded with one hand. Whats wro ng with the buggies nowadays?
One thing i found in London, which is missing in this shit of a city, is bus drivers tell people to fold and priority is always given to the wheelchair user. Doesnt happen here. Heck, often the driver wont even put down the tamp (its manual on our buses) and drives off leaving you going
but i have just become a volunteer 'mystery shopper' on the buses for a joint venture between disability forum and the bus comoany. Bwahahahaha

I had a double maclaren too....even fit through shop doors!!

Riven have the bus company not heard of you? Can't wait!!!

Bus drivers are arseholes here, no question. I have yet to see them being shits to people with disabilities, only a matter of time, but in the rare occasion I was on a bus a guy approached asking if the bus went to X and was told 'no'.... the bus was going to that place entirely. In addition when the driver got on, to start his shift, he kicked out all the rubbish from his area all over the bus. Needless to say I have complained and reported.

Taxi into town here is £18 one way. And its only 5 miles. One round trip would wipe out dds DLA. Hence we use her free bus pass (after9am only). It also allows one Carer to travel free.

He might find his bus company disagrees with him.
Until last year our area had one accessible bus an hour. Its halfway along the bus route. A wheelchair user would be waiting weeks with a driver like that!

Luckily 90% of buggy users are not slefish pricks. Its the 10% who are that make a. Rappy life worse. And the 1% who use vile disablist language at a 7 year old that make me never want to go out. Im reaching the stage where id take the gbh charge and probably beating if someone calls dd a name again

Just reading about a severely disabled girl in Sidmouth who can walk maybe ten steps. The dwp have taken away her mobility dla cos clearly walking ten steps makes you not disabled. So they lose their WAV and bus pass and money.

And bathsheba, he needs to remember a pushchair folds. Once folded both mum and wheelchair user can use the same damn bus. Then everyone is happy.

I thought that was standard Bathsheba, sorry haven't read whole thread so i would imagine this has already been discussed.

I would like to fold your cousin, I hope people complain, why do people work in jobs that mean they need to be considerate, and take pleasure in being shits?
riven I suppose we have to think ourselves lucky our dd's are so disabled they won't be able to do that to them