to think that wheelchairs should be priority on buses?

[mamadivazback]

My DS and I were on the bus today coming home from the town when I noticed a woman I vaguely know to speak to in the queue behind about 8 people with her 6YO DD who is in a narrow childs wheelchair and her DP with 2 year old son in small stroller so we waved, as you do.

Now the bus was about half full and 2 girls got on with their children in pushchairs, one with a very large Emmaljunga type and the other with a stroller and both children were happily sitting up by themselves and looked to be about 18 months old but neither thought to fold their pushchair when the lady tried to get her DD on, she had taken her DS out so she could fold pushchair and all sit together but the bus driver told her she could not get on as there were already 2 pushchairs onboard so she had to wait behind in the rain for the next bus.

I know pushchairs are entitled to use the bus but I thought you had to fold them if a wheelchair user was getting on and was quite shocked when the bus driver refused her a ticket, I spoke to her later on and she said it has happened a few times and it's just bad luck but I really don't think it's fair.

I have moved on from that situation, but sharing my experience so other people have a better understanding of 'selfish pram pushing menaces', and their needs not being so obvious, I would hope people would keep an open mind in future about why they need that pram space.
I still think wheelchairs take priority.

I had to use a double bike trailor pram with a 4 yr old(asd) and 1 yr old in on a bus recently, that would have taken a good 10 mins to take apart and fold.
People must have thought I was incredibly stupid bringing that big thing on the bus.
No one can see my son is Autistic, it's not visable.

I'd just be seen as some selfish idiot. That's not the case.

I stay away from buses now anyway

No chibi the cause of having to miss the bus was other pram users, many whom could probably fold their prams, but I cannot say for sure.

There are always going to be people whose personal circumstances at any given time might be difficult. But society, and service providers, can't possibly be expected to react to every set of individual circumstances. There are always going to be people who find things harder going than others.

The question the OP asked was whether wheelchairs should get priority on buses and the answer is obviously yes. This might mean that, occasionally, someone who is finding things hard going, or who is generally less robust than those around them, will be put in difficulties, but this won't happen to them on a daily basis. There are very few of us who will go through life, whatever our state of health, without occasionally finding a situation difficult or distressing. The point is to try to smooth out some of these difficulties for those who experience them on a daily basis for their entire lives.

No-one is suggesting that someone with health problems or other difficulties is not deserving of sympathy or consideration, simply that the needs of those who face permanent, ongoing problems with simple things like bus travel must take priority in order for this group of people to be able to be part of society.

And unfortunately they don't often get it. These threads come up time and time again on MN and there are always those who are outraged at the mere idea that they should be expected to fold their pram or wait for the next bus so that a wheelchair user can have the space. These people don't just exist in cyberspace - they are the mums who I have seen refusing to give way to a wheelchair user on the basis that "I was here first". They are the reason why I once had to go and get a police officer to help a girl in a wheelchair who was crying hysterically after being refused access to several buses in a row because the mums with prams refused to move and the driver wouldn't enforce it - the police officer did get her onto the next bus but his intervention shouldn't have been necessary. if people are so incapable of assessing the relative needs of those around them and simply doing the right thing then rigid rules as to who takes priority are the only way to go.

altrium isn't familiar with what a mile actually is, I wouldn't dwell on that.

so basically, no one should have to fold, unless they do, in which case they should. unless it is for a wheelchair user, who should just suck it up, first come first served.

kungfupanda you just gave the worst example of a pram user and the biggest example of a wheelchair user being victimised.
That could be told from the opposite way round.
As I've done.
I've seen women with babies just about in tears over missing somany buses, and been one myself, I wasn't just some bitch being outraged that I should fold my pram.

Wheelchairs users do get priority and should.
But pram users do suffer also at the restricted space.

pram users aren't all just inconsiderate inconviniences who should just get slings.

I think there should be a rule that all prams should be folded at all times, unless there is a problem preventing them from being folded.

Bloody hell. How unfit/lazy is everyone getting ?

Even I can walk 12 miles and i'm a fatty porker and not all that fit, would take me around 4 hours tho. Even the kids will walk the 6 miles to the next town (through an Abbey, very nice walk it is too) and then back again at the end of the day.

Obviously not practical to do day to day, but i'm really shocked that any fit and able person thinks they wouldn't be able to do it.

apocalypse do you think it's reasonable that a heavily pregnant woman could just walk 12 miles to the hospital?

Apocalypse, I stated earlier I'm lowest of the low obese.
So very unfit would be my answer. I could do 5/6 miles when not pregnant though.

As mumoftwo was heavily pregnant, severely anaemic and pushing a toddler in a knackered buggy, it's hardly shocking.

No - it couldn't be done from the other way round at all. Not without introducing all sorts of "what ifs" which is what this thread has become. A wheelchair user has NO CHOICE but to use the wheelchair. Every time they want to use the bus they will have to request that passengers/buggies/luggage are moved out of that space. They will never, ever be able to turn up to the bus-stop knowing they can simply get on the bus and go.

The vast majority of pram users - not every single one, but the vast majority - have choices available to them. They have a choice of pram, a choice as to whether to fold the pram or leave it unfolded and wait for the next bus, a choice as to whether to use the pram or a sling. Again, not every single pram user will have these choices available to them at all times, but the vast majority will have at least one of these choices most of the time.

A pram user might find themselves in difficulties from time to time, but if there wasn't an absolute acceptance that wheelchairs take priority, then given the appalling attitudes that I have seen personally and read about on here, there would be a pretty good chance that some wheelchair users might never be able to get on a bus at all.

It's a shame when any mum, particularly new mums with young babies, gets upset about the day to day difficulties of getting around but, for most of them, these difficulties will pass in time. For a wheelchair user they will never pass. They will never grow out of their wheelchair. Their disability will never start school and leave them free to travel unhindered. It will never grow up and move out. It is with them for life.

That is why that story can't ever truly be told from the other side. The other side bears no comparison.

I suggest you re read my post, I didn't say 'heavily pregnant women' should be able to do it. I said most fit and able people should be able to do it.

And stop being deliberately thick, it's annoying.

Tbh I think all this is a non argument, I could probably count on one hand the number of wheelchairs i've seen on buses, they're always full of prams. For that reason alone wheelchairs must be given priority, simply because the situation rarely occurs.

5 or 6 miles walking is also the maximum I've heard of normal healthy people walking.
Maybe I know some really incompetent slackers?

And I agree with altinkum, many heavily prregnant women would be able to walk 12 miles, especially on the flat.

Pah, us Cumbrians must be designed better than some

"Tbh I think all this is a non argument, I could probably count on one hand the number of wheelchairs i've seen on buses, they're always full of prams. For that reason alone wheelchairs must be given priority, simply because the situation rarely occurs."

Apocalypse - that is what I have been trying to say - but in fewer words!

kungfupanda thanks for your post

Altinkum, of course it is not impossible for a pregnant woman to walk 12 mile, but it was impossible for that pregnant woman, and me, I'd not make that either. Just because you could do it doesn't mean that even the majority could.

Apocolypse, I enjoy a little sophistry now and then, but I'm not actually seeing what was deliberately thick in that post?
We were talking about mumoftwo not being able to walk 12 miles when pg, so, what was your point then exactly?

I get a bus several times a week. I know i shoukd just stay indoors but im contrary like that. So the people on my route hooefully are used to shuffling about to let a wheelchair on. Funnily enough its older people who are way more considerate. The younger mums have grown up with easy buses and assume the space is for them. Older mums had years of having to fold ragradless of shopping, sleeping babies, SPD, etc.

I dropped out of college last time because I couldn't cope with the bus journey. I was abused on a regular basis. The final straw was when one woman spat on me because I wouldn't give up my priority seat to her mother.

It is certainly nigh on impossible for the average person though, isn't it?

I walked 3 miles with dd1 in a pram, heavily pregnant, because I couldn't get her on a bus, those 3 miles were up a hill. unsurprisingly I went into labour that night.

12 miles might be an easy walk for some pregnant ladies, but those 12 miles might not be on the flat.