to wonder how social workers can hold their heads up?

[downtothesea]

to think that our society must have lost its moral compass when the same social services which set the adoption bar so high also determine that children should be made to stay in this situation:
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2020464/Emily-Harbour-Mother-avoids-jail-leaving-baby-son-squalid-Newbury-house.html

And don't the rest of the family have any responsibility, when they know what's going on?

Noir great post and thank you for sharing that. Of course the system isn't perfect but we are lucky to have people like you in it.

Have I opened the defenders of the "keep the kids with the families at all costs" tin?
The ability to perform a basic bodily function (having a child) is not a qualification for parenthood.
How many people who have biological kids would actually pass adoption tests?
I love the social workers coming on and going - it's not one person's decision. Oooo well that's alright then - you can sleep easy at night - not your fault is it?

I think the social workers are merely a necessary by-product of bad parents who shouldn't be parents at all. It is those parents who shouldn't be able to hold their heads up in society.

From what I know of social services' work (which admittedly is not a great amount), the legislative and procedural hoops needed to even consider removal of a child seem to be just immense. I certainly wouldn't and couldn't do the job.

So I guess what I'm saying is that the parents of Baby P, Victoria Climbie and all of the other lost children, should be carrying the guilt in their souls (if they have them) for the rest of their miserable lives. :(

downtothesea

I know a family (the son was friends with my DB) where the middle daughter had a child in her teens, took drugs, was in and out of prison, etc. Her son now lives with his grandmother - who is a wonderful, caring person, and can't understand how her daughter turned out so differently to her and her other two children. Sometimes apples do fall far, far from the tree.

I would think that, in a case like this, placing the children with their grandparents would probably have been done after the grandparents were seen to be fit to take them. It's a terrible thing to judge without knowing all the facts, which is why I try not to. Perhaps you could try and do the same?

And FWIW, my dad's partner is a social worker, and she is fantastic. Tarring an entire profession on the basis of a few gross errors by isolated people, and children being left in abusive families because Social services aren't called in (probably because they are perceived to be useless thanks to the tabloids) doesn't help anyone.

Noir - "we're spending christmas together as a family because of you".

Well, I am chuffed you're so happy with yourself - but how many cards do you not get from kids who are stuck in crap situations?

Be a bit more real - you know, you haven't fixed it all. I believe Gen Colin Powell called it 'known unknowns'

You knw there is bad stuff out there but you don't know what it is... if you're honest about it - are you?

Oh feck off OP - get yourself to University and become a social worker. Obviously they NEED you and your skills. Off you go dearie.

sw dont operate in isolation or make unilateral decision.mdt working with police,courts and health in bloody hard circumstances.you clearly have a grievance and wish to malign sw and naturally will pick a few cases to substantiate this your ta-da see this proves it moment...

of course poor practice and serious case reviews need to be acknowledged and hopefully something learned from but that doesnt account for thr majority of good work that goes on.have you thought about the day to day so called routine work (its far from routine) about families maintained, situations resolved, liaison work with school, gp and police. good work happens and doesnt get plaudits or acknowledged.

have you been declined to adopt or foster?you seem particularly aggrieved about something?given your disdain for sw on this post ,does that permeate into rl too?

OP do you realise that SW's work according to the law and don't make the decisions, the court does.

There isn't enough information on this case available to comment properly, but if you look under my username i am always arguing the case why families have to be visited by CP SW and telephone conversations aren't enough.

There are always numerous posters who are trying to tell me that SW shouldn't have the right to knock on peoples doors, we cannot win.

Unless certain things are made manditory such as having to have visits from HV's and MW's and if the families of babies do not visit the DC's, then we would haveto live in a absolute police state to prevent Child Abuse.

downtothesea - you are not offering any answers and I am getting confused what your point is?

When a child is removed from a family, either on a voluntary basis or forcably removed through the courts, the first placement that they look for is on a "friends and family" basis. This is very important. Keeping a child with people who they ar familiar with, if they are able to support the child, is much more likely to be a success than placing them with a foster family who they have no connection with. It is also likely that keeping a child with f and f will mean they can remain at their schools, and keep up friendships so not such an upheaval. However it is still a complicated process and not done willy-nilly like you seem to think.

If there are no f and f possibilities, they then look to foster carers but there is a shortage and the difficulties are that children may need to move and change schools etc.

As far as adoption goes, I partly agree with you and partly not. The adoption process IS a lengthy one but taking on an adopted child who may well be very damaged is a much bigger undertaking that giving birth to your own child. Most people who look to adopt, only want babies or toddlers. It is very rare to get an adoptive home for an older child who comes with such baggage and on the rare occasion it happens, it is hugely important that the adoptive family have been well versed in what they are likely to uncover. Failure rate is high in older children adoptions and a breakdown has a huge impact on everyone.

I was on a discussion thread last night expalining why the HV had to involve the safeguarding team and couldn't just accept the DM's explaination and posters were arguing with me.

The only thing that will prevent child abuse is a styregthening of all extended families and to rid the reluctance to report neglect to SS, as i see defended on here daily.

ah OP - that would be Donald Rumsfeld, not Colin Powell.

ignorant of american politics and ignorant of the social welfare system.

grats.

extra points for being a daily mail reader AND believer.

oh and feckwit and birdsgottafly...

stirling work.

Also last night in my area, i know of at least three insidences of crime, should the police hang their heads in shame?

There would have been deaths at the hospital, should the nursing staff?

When someone is killed by a drunk driver, the list would be endless, ridiculous.

OP What does this situation have to do with a Social Worker? Please explain your reasoning?

Moving on from Feckwit- it is not only better to minimise disruption to the DC by placing them in a familiar environment, the SW has to, under the Children Act.

op,have you been declined for fostering and/or adoption?what has your experience of sw been?has this influenced your views,you seem to be v aggrieved

OP you also need to be aware of the long standing research into outcomes for children in care.
You talk about 'children in crap situations' but unless that situation is abusive the DC may not fair any better being removed, depending on the age this can be as damaging.

You have no idea the problems faced when the weighing of information, facts and what else is available has to be done.

There has been advancements in the laws regarding DC in care/leaving care but most of the theory doesn't happen, there are still big gaps in the system mainly because of how the law is written, sometimes it is contradictory, throw a big lack of funding into the mix and it becaomes a minefield to co-ordinate.

I was just going to add my comments re social worker bashing and how lazy and stupid it is.

Now I am really pissed off.

How fucking dare you assume that these children are not going to be ok with their grandparents. You talk toss. Some half arsed 'cycle of abuse' notion no doubt. You really should apply for a job on the Daily Fail. Send them this thread and you will be a shoo-in. Your style is perfect.

Do you have any idea how many grandparents and relatives are caring for children removed from birth parents? Can you imagine three children 1, 5 and 12 being delivered to your doorstep and being told 'if you dont take them they will go into care' but 'we cant help you financially and you will need to give up work'.

Or how about all the grandparents, aunts, uncles, siblings etc desperately fighting to care for their relatives but who come up against a brick wall of ingnorance because they are family therefore they MUST be scum?

I suppose we should go back to taking kids off the scummy working classes and handing them over for a better life with deserving middle class couples? Small problem though - most of these kids are hard to place and likely to have quite a lot of issues and they may even be a bit, well, common.

Fuck off and when you get their fuck off a bit fucking more.

:-( at the OP and :-( at the assumption that (perceived and alleged) poor parenting must always be connected to the extended family and/or blamed on social services failings

Op you are a fool since the children were under five and were not at school how would the ss know they were is trouble unless you feel someone should have invented a seeing eye so ss Could know when people are about to leave their children alone and in a dirty home.

The person who should be blamed is the mother and also i do question that the girls parents were not aware that the house was such a shit hole

Op i am guessing you are someone who has most probably had your own child removed and are trying to highlight this case to show how ss get things wrong as to justify the removal of your own child

Parents like you often site cases like baby p and say see they removed my child but they don't protect children of some such shit yuk thats all I say

These children are very lucky the police were called the ss were called the children are removed and the parent is in court.

Big loud handclap MrsD well said!

Downtothesea...you sound very bitter.

You do realise, OP, that the prosecution of the mother would have been the result of a lengthy and involved process of assessment and investigation by Children's Services and the police?

And that the SW don't choose the outcome of the legal process?

And that there are many family placements that are successful and safe because grandparents aren't always responsible for the parenting failures of their children?

I would guess from your posts that you know very little of what Children's Services actually do, beyond what you have read in the tabloids.