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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to defriend this person, or should I stand up for what I believe, then defriend? WARNING..FACEBOOK AND IMMIGRANTS ISSUE.

144 replies

littlemisssarcastic · 23/07/2011 20:49

Ok, I know there are many people who don't use facebook for whatever reason, but that's not why I am here.
I believe people should stand up for what they believe in, even if it means they might lose friends over it.

I am being bamboozled by a discussion I am having with a friend over their views on FB. I think I am now out of my depth, because I am convinced that this friend has now got someone else to write her replies to what I am saying. (She has never ever written or spoken like this before, in fact in all the time I have known her, she has never been able to have an intelligent conversation).

Before you say 'defriend', I'd like to say that whilst I agree that she will indeed be defriended (obviously depending on whether I am badly wrong or not) I feel I should at least attempt to give my friend 'food for thought' as it were.
It doesn't feel right to me to just walk away from such hatred without at least trying to enlighten her, or maybe it's me who needs enlightening, I don't know.

I am not sure if anyone will want to help me, so I'll post the conversation if anyone would like to see it,and hopefully make some sense of it for me, so I can at least try to clear up a few myths and maybe get this girl to think about what I have said before I defriend.

Warning: The discussion is about immigrants and how much help they should receive from the govt, so if anyone more intelligent than me who understands about immigration can help me, I'd really appreciate it. I can't help thinking that if one person changes their minds about immigrants (and friend is quite young) then I will feel it has been worth having the discussion IYSWIM.

OP posts:
yearight · 23/07/2011 22:31

Or should I say. How does the average immigrant or Asylum seeker pay for legal costs.

Tanif · 23/07/2011 22:33

Asylum seekers are entitled to £459 for legal representation. Not the 1000s that the daily mail would have you believe.

Immigrants are almost always privately paying as the type of things they require help with are not covered by legal aid.

yearight · 23/07/2011 22:36

And as asked before Tanif, exactly how many do you represent???????

yearight · 23/07/2011 22:39

Oh and does that include police station visit costs, detention centre costs and the cost of the flight to said country when all else fails. Not to mention previous costs to attend court in London (numerous times) on appeals. Is all these costs out of your £459.00

yearight · 23/07/2011 22:47

Tanif you've gone all so quiet.

BurningBridges · 23/07/2011 23:04

If Tanif has any sense s/he is off having a nice cup of tea and keeping well away from people who are pursuing, how shall I put this politely, a rather "special" agenda.

yearight · 23/07/2011 23:11

I was asked a question and responded, I asked a question and am waiting for the answer???

magicmummy1 · 23/07/2011 23:14

Sorry LRD - wasn't ignoring you, was just offline for a while.

I wasn't only talking about jobseekers but about other benefits such as income support, incapacity benefit etc as well. Lots of immigrants are entitled to these. If you have indefinite leave to remain, you do have recourse to public funds - and why the hell shouldn't you?!

LRDTheFeministNutcase · 23/07/2011 23:20

Oh, no need to apologize magic. Someone posted anyway saying that immigrants is too wide a term - I was thinking of non-EU people who've not been given leave to remain but realize now that is a narrower definition than was intended! So it's my fault.

I just get fed up because DH is an immigrant and people talk a lot about how much benefits immigrants get when they are just going to bugger off - it's crap for him as he contributes a heck of a lot and of course gets no benefits of any kind. I suspect the OP's mate is using tethers definition of immigrant and meaning 'anyone brown' even if they've been given leave to remain/citizenship/were born here. Sad

Getting ranty about the OP's friend's crap again ....

It's just totally untrue that people come here and are handed benefits. It does not happen. You have to jump through a lot of hoops to get into this country and you are carefully vetted for a long period of time before you can even apply for indefinite leave to remain - it is totally pointless to suggest there is a choice being made between letting mroe people into this country and giving money to the elderly, it just doesn't work like that.

menagerie · 23/07/2011 23:26

The bit I don't get when people bang on about immigrants, is that we're all immigrants. There can't be a single person alive in Britain who is 100% pure Angle or Saxon blood. So our ancestors at some point schlepped over to this island to make good lives for themselves. It's what people do. And Brits are spread throughout the world, making use of benefits elsewhere - may not be state hand outs, might be cheap domestic labour or great exchange rates but still, we take what's on offer where ever we are. That's human nature.

magicmummy1 · 23/07/2011 23:33

Oh LRD, I know exactly how you feel - my DH is an immigrant as well, and a brown one at that! Shock

There is a lot of prejudice out there, and a huge amount of misinformation, so I tend to be a bit of a stickler for "the facts" in these debates, as there isn't much point in even arguing against the bigotry.

What I don't understand, though, is why your DH isn't entitled to anything if he has been here since he was seven. Confused surely he can get indefinite leave to remain, can't he? Or British citizenship?

brdgrl · 23/07/2011 23:50

I'm an immigrant. Came here as a postgraduate student. Paid my own way, which basically meant using all my savings and taking out loans in my home country (which I am now obliged to pay back) - in fees, I paid a total of about £35,000. The only work I was permitted to take was a few hours a week for the university, so I earned about £100/month as a teaching assistant.

I have a baby now. She's a citizen here. I was not eligible for any of the 'Healthy Start' or similar benefits when pregnant. As a citizen, she was eligible for Child Benefit - but I could not claim it; in our case, her father, who is a citizen, could claim the Child Benefit and the Tax Credits for her. I did get NHS care, because I was on my student visa.

We are married now. To get the (expensive) visa, we had to show that we could afford to live on my DH's income ONLY, without claiming any benefits at all. And I still am not eligible for benefits.

I am NOT complaining, not at all, this was my choice (unlike a refugee or asylum seeker, I could return to my home country). But I do get angry at the idea that we immigrants are sitting here sponging up free money! I have put way more into the economy here than I have taken out.

LRDTheFeministNutcase · 23/07/2011 23:53

You're right to be a stickler for facts - I should have qualified, it's just I get so fed up with the image people have of immigrants just being let in and handed money that the Daily Fail is so good at pushing.

My DH has temporary leave to remain - we only got married a year ago. He'll be eligible for indefinite leave in a couple of years though, which will be nice (and he'll have bloody paid his way, too!)

toptramp · 23/07/2011 23:54

I think it's a bit extreme to defriend someone unless she's a bigot.

Jacinda · 24/07/2011 00:06

Menagerie, you're spot on. We'd still be living up on trees or in caves if not for our universal human thirst for a better life.

To talk about politics and economy of immigration one must be deep into the subject as it's an extremely complicated matter. I feel that the talk about immigrants getting filthy rich on benefits and robbing pensioners at the same time is just a lousy cover up for plain racism.

And to actually think less of someone just because he/she moved in recently or looks differently is just wrong beyond words. It really shouldn't be acceptable in any form. Racism is behind majority of the worst atrocities that ever happened, Norway being the latest example.

breadcrumbs · 24/07/2011 00:34

The "true shocking fact" that's bugging me at the moment is one that my colleague rants on about all the time, to anyone who will listen. Did you know that Polish men can come to the UK and be given £10K to set up a car washing business? All the money they make is theirs to keep and send home to their families, they dont have to pay tax, and they are give free B&B accommodation. In addition, they can clain child benefit for their kids even if they dont live in the UK.

Apparently.

Anyone got any experience in this and could enlighten me as to how this sotry could have started? Cos it flippin drives me mad when she starts off on the "I'm not racist, but..." Angry

Pendeen · 24/07/2011 01:10

Anyone who enters this country without permission is here illegally.

What should be asked is.

How?

differentnameforthis · 24/07/2011 01:10

Tell her she must be ignorant to believe a chain 'letter' on facebook.

JanMorrow · 24/07/2011 01:28

Menagerie, even the Saxons didn't originate here! They were from Europe, probably came here to take advantage of the Roman Britain benefits system.. had it easy until the vikings wanted a piece of the action.. and the Romans did the same when they heard how good the Britons had it before all that..

and the Homo sapiens wandered across the landmass and moved here from Africa because they could set up a car wash..

debivamp · 24/07/2011 01:31

I have met refugees in my previous job. When a mother of 2 children in tears talks of the joy of seeing/finding the British troops after being chased from her home town in Kosov and knowing that the Serbs would not kill her son - it kind of changes you veiw on things.

I think the real crooks are not the benefit cheats who claim £60 per week but the tax evaders who defraud this country of millions. Personally I do not shop at any store/shop owned by Peter Green and am looking forward to cancelling my vodaphone contract in 3 months.

scottishmummy · 24/07/2011 01:35

peter green employs thousands of people in arcadia and is legit businessman. arcadia group generate revenue and jobs for uk. tax evasion is illegal. tax avoidance whilst a hotly contentious issue but not illegal

debivamp · 24/07/2011 01:56

and that makes it right???.
We are all facing hugh cuts in public services and he is "avoiding" his tax bill - shame on him.

scottishmummy · 24/07/2011 02:12

individually,if you no likey arcadia dont shop there.thats your choice as a consumer.but certainly i dont associate arcadia with current recession.and i do and will continue to shop at arcadia

KRIKRI · 24/07/2011 02:15

Looks like the "friend" is cutting and pasting some rubbish from the internet. It's clear the language used in the later posts is nothing like the language of the earlier posts.

If this person is only a "sort of" friend in RL, do you really think you get anything positive or beneficial from the association? Me, I couldn't be arsed with someone who is so determined to prove themselves right about something in the face of overwhelming, hard evidence that they're talking crap. And, I would feel uneasy having a friend who spouts hateful, hurtful, xenophobic bull anyhow. IMHO, defriend on Facebook and defriend in real life. You can do without, honestly.

Kallista · 24/07/2011 03:29

I've found that if a person is racist to whatever degree then it's very hard to change their views. Their views CAN change but it's more likely to be by experience than debate. Eg: my Dad 63yrs was brought up quite racist (WC, poor education, all white area, no TV), but then worked in an industry with people of various cultures & nationalities over the years who he has made good friends with. It was inevitable that through mixing with people of other races my Dad's views would change as he is a nice intelligent guy. One of my cousins married a black man who my Dad likes & he adores their children. Before he met any mixed race couples my Dad sincerely believed mixing races was wrong - that was what he had been taught. Now he even says he would be happy for me to meet a man of any race.

OP - I wouldn't waste your energy on arguing with your FB friend. Only you know if you can stay friends on FB or in RL. I had 2 good friends with slightly racist views - again, due to life experience (& me giving my opinion!) they are now very tolerant. If they were still racist I'd have ditched them.

Due to my background I do still have close relatives who are racist. I love them to bits but dislike their views. They are not as tolerant & accepting as my Dad has become.
I have made my views clear to them - yet out of malice or mischief they will try to create arguments in my home about immigration. When I disagree I get told I'm naive or 'too opinionated'. So I find it too stressful to row. If they start to discuss immigration in my home (or any other controversial topic) I now ask them to change the subject or leave.