...to discipline dd for waking in the night ??

[Tillyscoutsmum]

DD is 4.2 years. She slept through the night from about 12 months - no problems.

About 6-7 months ago, she started waking in the night. Sometimes its 4 or 5 times a night.

Initially, she called for us, we went in and asked what was wrong and she said nothing. More recently, she has given us "excuses" i.e. my duvet has fallen off (usually she has kicked it off) or she can't reach her drink (she could if she leant slightly out of bed).

We've tried talking to her about it. She's said that she's worried we've left her alone and she just wants to check we're there. We've tried to reassure her. We've tried reward charts with a treat for a certain number of nights sleeping through and they have worked periodically (so she can sleep through when she wants to) but they now seemed to have stopped working. We've given her night lights because she said it was too dark. We've left the door open because she decided she didn't want it closed any more. We're tried going in to give her a cuddle before we go to bed so she knows we haven't gone anywhere. We've tried everything.

She's exhausted and tired in the day and its affecting her behaviour. We're knackered (and its affecting our patience ). She starts school in September and I'm concerned she won't cope with a full day if she's so tired.

This morning, after waking us up 3 times in the night and then appearing in our bedroom at 5am ready to start the day, I told her if she doesn't stop waking us up we will start taking away treats/toys as a punishment.

AIBU ?

I too remember being terrified by nightmares and all sorts of scary images in my head in the middle of the night at a particular age, around 6 or 7 I think. I never told anyone about this, but luckily I could get into bed with my mother when I wanted. I remember at school a group of us were discussing this (we were quite old, during A Levels) and strangely enough all of us had experienced this, and none of us had talked about it with an adult. It can't be that uncommon then.

Just let her sleep in your room.

I've had this and it's hard work. With regards the 'duvet falling off' excuse, I put a double throw over the top which hung down both sides of the bed meaning that the duvet COULDN'T fall off.
For the drink, it went in a sports bottle so it could actually stay beside her pillow so was always within reach.
For cuddles when she wasn't upset, it's a cuddle and a stroke of the head but with very little talking. She doesn't actually ever get out of bed and on nights where a cuddle just won't do, I lie beside her until she goes off.
I've done the taking away toys and treats - it doesn't really work and ultimately 'I'm' the one who feels like crap. There have been nights when I've shouted at her. Not proud and it ends up with her being genuinely upset when she actually wasn't before ?
Sometimes rewards and bribery do work - I understand what you say about this being frustrating because it means that she CAN sleep through but I reckon that a week of sleeping through bribery buys me back a few good nights sleep.
Can you and DH take turns with the nights? Am fairly sure this is a stage that will pass. It IS soul destroying though. my eldest wa s dream sleeper and I was quite smug about kids who are frequent wakers. Boy am I eating my judgey smuggery.....

Tilly I believe robingood19 is GabbyLoggon and or ScousyFogarty

HTH

I think i would go down the route of rewards for good behaviour. get a sticker if she goes through night, after so many stickers a treat etc. of course she needs to know she can go to you if scared

I am really shocked that a lot of posters can't see that this poor child is scared at night and just wants reassurance from her parents. The child has said she is worried her parents have left her.
The 'excuses' such as the duvet coming off are simply her way of getting
Mummy or daddy to come to her as she is scared.
I did the same when I was young and didn't have the ability to articulate 'mummy I need a cuddle and some reassurance and am frightened sleeping alone'.
Why would you consider punishing this? Why can't you give your daughter the reassurance she craves? Would it really be that bad if one of you slept in her room for a while, or she came into you?
You aren't made to sleep alone so why is your daughter? Please do not punish her. This breaks my heart.

Yoshilunk, my money's on Gabby.

Second and third the suggestions to let her sleep in your room.

Something in her world is causing her to NEED her mum and dad in the night.Reassure her by letting her have the comfort she's asking for and it will pass. A mattress or sleeping bag on the floor may mean that she doesn't even wake you up.

Why is it that the youngest and most vulnerable have to 'learn' to be alone when they are frightened ?
Yet adults get the comfort and reassurance of sleeping together

My thoughts exactly finally, you have put it a lot better than me!

agree with finally and knackered - she is obv worried about something if she is waking up more than once a night and not for pee etc - so please don't punish her, unless you never want your daughter to confide in you!! give her what she needs - love and reassurance.

ds went through this when he was around 6

he would want to ask some sort of random question usually ie what do cows eat? how do you make double glazing?

really the kind of thing that could wait until the morning. we made it very clear that bad dreams/illness was the only thing that we were open to dealing with while it was still night time.

we tried rewards for not shouting in the night, nada. finally (and also as i was then expecting dd2 and super super tired i told him that if he wanted to call out/have random discussions in the night, fine, but there would be no tv the next day.

he did it once. next day no tv. peaceful nights thereon in.

evil mummy? probably. but it worked.

OP I can see that you've been trying to reassure her and I stand by what I said before but would like to add, if she is truly anxious why not just let her come in and check you are there?

You say you know leave her door open at night, is yours open also? If she just wants reassurance that you're there then you can tell her if she wakes up and is worried then she can come and see for herself you are there and happily trot back to bed, there is no need to wake you and you won't be cross about it.

How is she normally at following rules?

Thank Finally and Knackered. I do appreciate your comments. I genuinely do not know whether she is feeling insecure and looking for reassurance or whether she is acting up and testing boundaries. This morning, I overheard her tell her pre-school teacher in what can only be described as a gleeful manner, that she made Mummy & Daddy wake up really early this morning. She actually sounded quite proud of herself . She is doing a lot of boundary testing in the day time. I suppose boundary testing is possibly just an extension of insecurity and therefore amounts to the same thing ???

Practically, we would struggle to fit a mattress or sleeping bag in our room. We could fit one in her room for me I suppose but, rightly or wrongly, I am scared of starting a habit that will be difficult to break.

Sassy - thanks for your post. You are right about the "bribery" at least sometimes giving us all a couple of decent night's sleep to "catch up"

yoshi - thank you. The incoherent, random ramblings now make perfect sense

x posted yoshi. I was referring to Gabby/Robin's ramblings - obviously . Yes our door and her door are both open. She generally just shouts out in the night but might come in in the morning (but generally refuses to go back to bed at that point, even if it is 5am). Maybe the coming to check on us without waking anyone might work.

My DD2 went through a phase of coming in for a glass of water a couple of times a night around the age of 4 or 5, it was killing us after a while, so I gave her Phenergan for three nights and it seemed to break the habit.

My DD3 has done this a few times lately, she is 4.10 and starts school in September too.

She is normally a happy, confident, secure little girl who loves nursery and is excited about school. However her occasional night wakings are, IMO, related to anxiety and a little insecurity which always seem worse at night when all is quiet and dark and you feel very much alone.

I'm quite anti co-sleeping with my kids (purely because it means I don't sleep well) but on those nights she comes in and snuggles next to me. She doesn't seem to be making a habit of it and sleeps for longer, rather than me being up and down with her in the night, so we actually all sleep more.

I wouldn't punish her but try rolling with it for a little longer, and chatting about any worries, school, changes etc (that she may be unable to articulate) in the day.

Ds1 has been doing a lot of boundary testing at the moment. His time to reach out for sympathy is bed time. He doesn't wake us up anymore. He's just over 5 and in reception.

Is there any other reason she wants your attention?
Could you giver her extra cuddles and tell her they'll last all night?
A new soft toy she could choose and take to bed?
Music to chill her out in her room?

We used the softly softly approach first, followed up with lots of praise for not getting out of bed, going straight back to bed with no fuss, using the toilet quietly etc. Some cross words at 4 a.m also Think that combo worked! Now, he just doesn't ever want to go to bed...another thread.

can you try tiring her out through the day more and try giving her a big snack at bedtime? my nephew has always been a terrible sleeper but as long as he's been run ragged and had a sandwich a drink of milk and apple slices he's usually fine. still never sleeps past 7 am but its better than 3/4/5 am and im hungry/need a wee wee/suns out get up!

Do you sleep through the night, each and every night, without ever waking up? When I wake up during the night if I've had a nightmare, all I need to do is scoot over to the other side of the bed and DH is there for a warm, if relatively comatose, cuddle. Your DD needs to shout out for someone to come and hug her.

Your DD just wants reassurance.She's young and likely to be a bit scared. My DDs went through the same thing at the same age. It was all about insecurity - they'd just started school and become aware that the world was a much bigger place than they'd realised. Perhaps someone had said something during the day that they were worrying about. We invested in a sparkly crystal lamp with a nightlight wattage bulb. We told DD1 that the lamp was magic. It captured all the bad dreams and horrible thoughts in the crystals and dissolved them away, leaving all the nice dreams to float around.
If she was particularly restless, we invested in a cheap toddler mattress from Ikea that we could store under our bed and whip out at night so she could sleep next to us for company but not in our bed.

at drugging a 4 year old for waking up for water at night.

Tillyscoutsmum
This morning, I overheard her tell her pre-school teacher in what can only be described as a gleeful manner, that she made Mummy & Daddy wake up really early this morning. She actually sounded quite proud of herself .

She was probably just imparting information to them rather than boasting about making your life harder. Try the reward chart suggested - you'll probably find she'll tell them about that instead.

I know when you tried it can feel like they are getting at you - but usually it not that at all and it will pass.

Might also find the 7 on the clock thing isn't enough of a visual clue for her - require that she can read the dial and remember what 7 is when she probably not quite awake and may be scared. A move visual clue - light/pop up bunny might work better.

I managed to get my 2.5 year old to just come into bed with me quietly if he wakes up at night rather than screaming for me. If he does have a nightmare or gets the door stuck on something etc though he does scream for me and it is jarring. All I did was explain to him that if he woke in the night I might not be there with him but I'd only be in my bed, so he could go back to sleep by himself or he could come and find me if he really needed me. Sometimes he wakes up and is obviously too sleepy to think straight so he just cries and I just call out "I'm in my room DS, come in here." Obviously me shouting across the house is disturbing to others as well, but not much more than his initial screaming and usually he hears that, remembers and comes running in, and this has been happening less and less anyway. He's actually slept through a couple of times!

I think a 4 year old should be easily capable of coming into your room herself rather than shouting out for you. It's up to you then to decide if she is allowed to get into bed with you, go back to her own or do the temporary bed at the side of yours thing.

Also if DS wakes up early I've sometimes been able to get him a little dry breakfast, say dry cereal, an apple, and a marmite sandwich (quicker than toast) and a drink and put it in his room, stairgate on the stairs, and I tell him I'm going back to bed but he can play in his room if he likes.

I've had OCD since I can remember and one of my things when I was very small was that I had to say 'Goodnight, see you in the morning' everytime I heard my Mum or Dad come in to my room, if I didn't do that I would think that they wouldn't be there in the morning for whatever reason. My parents would tell me not to wake myself up by talking to them when they came in but it wouldn't stop me because I was scared they'd die or something in the night. I also never told my parents why I did it.

It might not be anything like that but I thought it was worth mentioning.

Good luck.