To emigrate to Australia?!

[DarlingDuck]

DH and I are 30 and have 3 DC's, we've wanted to emigrate for a long time. It would mean me re-training and doing a midwifery degree but I would earn twice the salary in Australia as I would here in the UK. The only cons we can think of would be missing our families and all the huge spiders/snakes!

I realise it will be a huge upheaval and our eldest will be around 10 years old when we plan to go which may be hard for her. Ideally we would like to do it sooner but we want to make sure we can earn a good wage.... AIBU?

There are a lot of misconceptions on this thread - I am Aussie, so have first hand knowledge of some of them and why they are wrong but I'm not going to go back and respond to each one individually - I don't have time.

BUT - if you want to do the "evidence based research" type approach to whether a move to Oz would be good for your family you ought to look at This document - they do one every 5 years or so and Oz scores better in most categories. There are other things to consider but this is a good document to try and analyse it from your child's perspective.

Its wrong about schools being worse there by the way though obviously these factors will vary depending on where you live there and where you live here, and your child's educational needs, but across the board, no, its not strictly true.

But hasnt there been a bit of a crisis with Ausssie schools recentl Tatty? People I speak to over there (and they're all Aussies) are generally unhappy with what's on offer....they've all gone private. Ok I'm talking about a group of 5 couples who are friends of ours...but they all live in different areas...they say the general standard of the primary education is poor.

Agree with Mummy2LZ re renting in different places.

My SIL pays a week what we pay a month. She has a studio apartment in Sydney, we have a 3 bed with lrg yard front & back, in Adelaide. We pay just over $1k a mth.

I don't like the education on offer here. We can't afford private & the girls education is a huge factor in us eventually leaving here.

Not that I've heard, Mumbling, and my DD is of an age where friends are starting to talk about primary school. We're almost all staying with state education at least for primary. My local state primary has better academic results across the board than either of the local privates, as well as some interesting childhood education principles and initiatives (interactive kitchen garden, Montessori-influenced techniques with getting children involved in own learning) and decent child/teacher ratios. It probably does depend heavily on the area, but we live in a fairly average, not particularly expensive area.

That said, of course, my knowledge of English education is limited to my own.

Ragdoll, About a third of Australian children go to private schools, so it's not so unusual here. I have a fairly affluent social group I guess, but I hardly know anyone who went to a public high school. My kids will be going to the local primary school as it is really excellent and just as good as the private options IMO. Don't know what you mean by crisis - in general I think Australian schools are pretty fantastic. Like in the UK, it will all be dependent on the particular school on offer in your area.

DifferentName - is it something you dislike about the Australian school system in general or are the schools near you just not up to scratch?

You can't really compare UK schools with Aussie schools based on what some people in Australia say about their schools. And vice versa. I've heard people having a moan about primary schools here and going private but I'm not likely to conclude all schools are shit and that they must therefore be better in Australia.

You really have to look at standards of schools and education etc as a whole and then perhaps compare the schools you are able to go to with the schools you would definitely be able to go to here to make a comparison. If the schools you are eligible to go to here are better (i.e in a catchment you could afford in a town you would live in etc etc) then perhaps then you could say, "for education, we would be better off in the UK" or vice versa etc.

If you look at the "educational well being" section of the Unicef report, Australia always appears much higher than the UK in every single category. You have to look at the bigger picture really when choosing a country, if you are in a position of actually "choosing", because once you get there, if things aren't as good as they can be, you can relocate within that country (it might simply be buying a house in a different suburb etc) but you wouldn't necessarily write the country off as a whole.

(In relation to paragraph one - even though they are. But I've concluded that from the Unicef report, not from people here moaning, if that makes sense)

There is lots...would take ages to list it all. Dd is at the best we can afford.

One of the things that bothers me is that there is no national curriculum.

Why does that matter? Not being argumentative, just interested.

Crisis? What Crisis?

Unless you mean the continued financing of private schools at the expense of state ones.

Quite a lot of Aussies educate privately; and usually for social reasons, not mixing with the roughs, sorry, seeking a more homogenous educational setting.

These would be the same schools which unceremoniously tip out their underperformers or poorly-behaved students onto the state sector in order to protect their exam scores.

Just to summarise, Finland, Canada, Japan and Australia head the tables in educational well being. Australia comes 3rd in the world in the Educational achievement of 15 year olds, based on reading, mathematical and scientific literacy. The UK comes 9th.

Percentage of 15-18 year olds in full time education - Australia have about 12% more still in education (this is a big factor in whether your child is likely to be in low-skilled work for their lifetime)

The UK doesn't score terribly badly either - its really just in response to the general sentiment that schools are better here. If you look at what kind of level schools are getting 15 year olds to and whether they go on to do more study or go and get low skilled work, Australia is better on both counts and thus you can't help but conclude the school system is doing something right, technically more so than the UK.

As far as education goes, DS goes to a public (state) school here after a couple of years in private in the UK. It is excellent.

It does vary hugely depending on the area though. Where we are is very affluent and people are very involved with the school so that is going to make for a better situation then somewhere with less resources and perhaps less involved parents.

Personally, I believe the public schooling is far superior to what was available in London which is one of the reasons we moved back.

But once again swings and roundabouts. One of the things I prefer about DS1's school is the more laid back attitude to learning and the complete lack of exams etc. The school in London had really started to ramp up the pressure so I am quite happy that it is all a lot more relaxed. That might not suit someone who is more concerned with acedemic achievement and getting the 'numbers' etc.

Echt - agree the funding is a point of contention, but hardly a crisis. And are the private schools in the UK or anywhere else any more accepting of kids who cause trouble?
IME it is the under performing kids who get shuffled off to private school to try and buy them results they wouldn't get without the extra attention. I do know of one school in Sydney which is famous for shafting the under-performing girls, but it's the exception rather than the rule IME. Also, I've never heard of any of those girls going to the local state school - they all end up at one of the other local privates.

Echt - when you say "quite a lot of Aussies privately educate" - sure, true, but how does that compare with how many do here? For pretty much the same reasons, as far as I can tell.

I know its big over there, thinking of how many private schools in that Kew/Hawthorn area (I went to one of those actually) and its true they will turf out students not making the grade.

But those Unicef figures include ALL students, not just the ones who were educated privately...

When I came to Australia, I was, at first, taken aback by the lack of exams/national tests, but having taught here for 5 years, and as many exam groups as Year 7s and 8s, the students, I can say it does no harm whatsoever.

Teachers aren't observed, their lesson plans not scrutinised, the structure of their teaching not prescribed. They are trusted to get on with job.

The only private school I would consider is Kings.

And that only if the DS's showed some real skill in Rugby or something like that. We would very much be buying contacts rather than a better education.

We don't believe it is necessary though, we both attended 'disadvantaged' schools and have done rather well for ourselves so the kids should be just fine where they are.

We are well placed here for Macquarie so if either of them choose to attend Uni it would be easy for them to stay at home in the long term.

Because my daughter's education IS important?

Australia have about 12% more still in education

That's because they don't leave school until 18. They start later & leave later.

No, differentname - you can leave school at 15 (or if you were old for your year you might have just had your 16th birthday the June before the end of the Academic year in December) with just a "school leavers certificate" - i.e no GCSE equivalent or A level equivalent. This will allow you to either go to TAFE and do an apprenticship type thing or go and do unskilled work. But if you go to TAFE or do an apprenticeship you are still in full time education.

If you go on to do the GCSE equivalent and then the A level equivalent (it used to be called HSC - High School Certificate - or VCE where I lived - Victorian Certificate of Education) - that's what gets you into Uni.

You then go to Uni aged 18 but don't tend to do a gap year.

Morloth, just on your last point and absolutely nothing to do with UK vs Australia - I lived at home while I went to Uni and I really wish I hadn't donw that. I missed out on so much in terms of the social integration and learning to live by myself - although I rectified that second part in my 3rd year, our "industrial year out", by moving away for my job, making it super-difficult to go back to living at home for my final year - if I had my chance again, I would go further away and live out of home.

DifferentName - you sound angry - I meant no offence. I'm just not sure what problem you see with the state based curriculum system. It hadn't occurred to me that it was an issue, and I was wondering why you thought it was.
Of course your daughter's education is important! I never suggested otherwise.

Tatty, the percentage of Aussie children in "private" schools is greater than in the UK. I think, though someone can give more accurate figues it's about 10% in the UK, 30-ish in Oz.

I call them "private" because they pocket huge amounts of taxpayers money through government funding, turn away the inconvenient (think SN) while huge numbers of state schools haven't got a pot to piss in.

I have no objection to private schools, but feel they should be entirely so, like a car instead of a bus.

I am fine either way. I lived at home for the first couple of years and then met and married DH so we had a grotty flat in Newtown.

DH moved out immediately on starting uni and wishes he had saved the money.

As I said I don't mind, I am sure I will be heartily sick of them by that time - I may perhaps toss them the keys and bugger off to Paris...

No need to worry just yet, they are only 7 and 1, we have just bought a new house right around the corner from the local public school and within walking distance to one of the best high schools in the State so I am good for the next 20 years or so!