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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Home births are irresponsible

373 replies

LadyShapes · 14/07/2011 09:05

Did anyone see the start of Lorraine at about 8.30? They were talking about what's in the news and one of the stories was about how more women should have home births. The delighful guest they had on to talk about it said that she thought home births were irresponsible and dangerous. She also said she thought natural births were a load of rubbish and she just wanted to be in hospital and have medical intervention (paraphrasing). Oh and she wouldn't have a home birth because she has cream carpets. The other guest just agreed with her, so the that was the extent of the discussion.

Is it me? AIBU to think they shouldn't discuss news stories unless the guests have some kind of informed opinion (I mean, all the infomation I have had from my midwife tells me about the benefits of home births and a natural birth as well as the risks), or they should have read more than just the headline. Or AIBU to be watching Lorraine and hoping for some kind of balanced discussion.

OP posts:
HairyFrotter · 14/07/2011 22:09

No I don't think epidurals should be restricted - I think they should be available on pretty much on demand. I don't think medics should be allowed to decide whether a woman is in sufficient pain. It would be expensive but in an ideal world that's what I think we should have.

spudulika · 14/07/2011 22:10

"Spud, please dont use Riven's previous c section (which I didnt know about)"

If you and other people here are going to use it as an example of the riskiness of home birth then I think it needs to be pointed out that she was not 'low risk'.

I'm not pointing the finger. I had gestational diabetes and opted for a home birth with a baby I knew to be over 10lbs. I stand by my right to make this choice because it was made in good faith - believing it was the best and safest thing in my particular circumstances. I know Riven did the same, and it makes me very, very sad that she blames herself so much. We all make the best choices we can for our babies, based on what we know, and what our intuition tells us is right. Sad

And if you don't want to hear me make the case for home birth on this thread in response to your ill-informed comments on the subject, then you know what to do.

Don't let the door bang your arse on the way out! Wink

WineAndPizza · 14/07/2011 22:11

Spud "Errr, where did that come from. We're debating the risks and benefits of different birth environments and types of care."

That did not come across when you were saying the majority of women in hospitals would be stuck on their backs being told what to do and most likely going home with either a C Section, serious tear or episiotomy.

Anyway, I'm off to the pub.

spudulika · 14/07/2011 22:12

"I think they should be available on pretty much on demand"

OK - I presume you also think home births should also be available on demand then?

Given that this what some women need to have to make labour a bearable experience for them?

Rocky12 · 14/07/2011 22:13

But your the one who is ill informed -you seem to be dicating to all and sundry that 'home birth is the best' Are you medically qualified or do you just make it up and the outcome be dammed.

And using riven to back up your 'case' is pretty horrible.

Tangle · 14/07/2011 22:15

I have huge sympathy for Riven and her family. I've read many of her posts, including more details of her births than have been divulged on this thread, and some of the problems she's faced since. My heart goes out to her and her family.

However, I do feel it is somewhat inappropriate for any poster to hold up their experience as an example of why HB is dangerous without adding any details of why they may have been significantly higher risk than most women who would contemplate a HB - and from what I've read previously this is what Riven has done on a number of levels. I do not agree with revealing more details than she has chosen to do - but equally I feel it is disingenuous to represent partial data in a discussion that (invariably) becomes quite contentious.

I chose to have a HB for DC1, even though I knew she was breech. We were fine. However, if things had gone wrong would it not be inappropriate for me to omit the fact DC1 was breech (which most people would consider to increase the risk of a vaginal birth in any location)? Without that facs the assumption would be that I fitted the NHS criteria for "low risk" in every particular, and that is not correct.

Rocky12 · 14/07/2011 22:16

Spud - how do you know what would make labour bearable for us all? I always wanted a epidural. When they asked me fairly early if I wanted one I said yes, always in my birth plan (although I looked at my birth plan the other day and laughed). The time to decide when you want pain relief is when you are in pain, not filling in some sodding form.

itsastrawpoll · 14/07/2011 22:16

Oh scratch that last question, I thought I recognised the lack of boundaries and human empathy

HairyFrotter · 14/07/2011 22:18

Erm yes I do believe homebirths should be available on demand.

And well done on not having an epidural spud. I'm sure you had the most painful labour in the history of labours....oh no sorry your baby must have shot out like a well greased pea because you were at home Hmm

halcyondays · 14/07/2011 22:18

How dare low risk mums gobble up bed space? It's their choice to give birth in hospital.it's a case of each to their own. For me, a home birth was a nice idea in theory, but not something that I would seriously consider. I would just feel anxious about the possibility of something going wrong, which would probably have an adverse effect on my labour.

It's not as though they leave people dying in theatre who need emergency surgery so that they can give women epidurals. Sometimes women aren't able to have them because the anaesthetists are busy.

Spud, have you ever had a hospital birth yourself? Being made to lie on your back with constant monitoring isn't the norm in UK hospitals these days. I was able to use a birth ball, try different positions, move about, and that was even with an induction, but best of all I was able to have remi fentenol. I wouldn't have had that with a home birth.

HairyFrotter · 14/07/2011 22:20

Spud probably still thinks they routinely shave your faff and pop you in stirrups halcyon.

Rocky12 · 14/07/2011 22:22

My two hospital births allowed me to do what I wanted. In fact in the 2nd birth my doctor said I could do what I liked, hang from the ceiling if it helped but he was the one to say ' decide on pain relief when you are in pain'. You dont get prizes Spud for having a baby at home or for doing without pain relief. Anyway you could always lie and say even in hospital you didnt have any, just a bit of gas and air, how would anyone know....

halcyondays · 14/07/2011 22:23

Quite likely,Hairy.

Rocky12 · 14/07/2011 22:24

Spud seems to know a lot about how MW's staff themselves and where they get extra resource from. For some - a home birth will be great, they will be surrounded by their own things, get into their own bed and that is very tempting considering the other option is a ward full of screaming babies but honestly Spud - please stop preaching to us all

spudulika · 14/07/2011 22:24

"That did not come across when you were saying the majority of women in hospitals would be stuck on their backs being told what to do and most likely going home with either a C Section, serious tear or episiotomy."

Just under half the women in the UK nationally will have what's termed a 'normal birth'. That's for all women. First time mums have MUCH lower rates of normal birth and much higher rates of assisted delivery and perineal trauma.

spudulika · 14/07/2011 22:24

Rocky - if you don't like it you know what to do!

spudulika · 14/07/2011 22:27

"Spud probably still thinks they routinely shave your faff and pop you in stirrups halcyon."

My nearest hospital (where I had dd and ds2) has 70% of women giving birth in a supine or semi supine position. 19% give birth lying flat with their feet in stirrups, when the assisted delivery rate is only 11%. And that's a large London teaching hospital.

Rocky12 · 14/07/2011 22:27

Spud - I dont know what you mean. Just because a number of responses dont agree with you you are getting all huffy.

Rocky12 · 14/07/2011 22:28

Spud - you really must get out more often. Where are you getting all this information from and why? We are more than able to make our own decisions

HairyFrotter · 14/07/2011 22:28

Spud either through ignorance or bias you are providing a very dated view of labouring in a hospital.
I accept that hospital births come with dangers as well as home births although I would say that there is likely to be more regional variation with hospital births. 'Good' hospitals would be less risky and 'bad' hospitals possibly more.
But surely the ideal would be to get rid of the practices that create unnecessary intervention in hospitals whilst retaining the proximity to theatre for when sections are needed. You can't put an operating theatre in everyones house. Why does it have to be a case of either flat on your back in hospital OR an ambulance ride away from emergency care?

spudulika · 14/07/2011 22:28

"You dont get prizes Spud for having a baby at home or for doing without pain relief"

Unless you count having an intact fanny, easier breastfeeding and less PND as a 'prize'. Which I do.

Much more likely after a homebirth.

Rocky12 · 14/07/2011 22:30

What on early has easier breastfeeding got to do with anything! Less PND - please!!

spudulika · 14/07/2011 22:30

"Spud either through ignorance or bias you are providing a very dated view of labouring in a hospital."

No, I'm going on the current figures from Birthchoice UK - the main index or maternity statistics in the UK.

What do you get your understanding of normal birth rates from? Your own experience?

There's lots of good practice going on in UK hospitals. But there's also lots of shit practice. And a very low normal birth rate, which midwives and doctors are all worried about.

spudulika · 14/07/2011 22:32

"What on early has easier breastfeeding got to do with anything! Less PND - please!!"

Most women would prefer to get off to a good start with breastfeeding, and that's more likely to happen after a homebirth. Probably because mothers giving birth at home tend to be healthier following the birth and have fewer birth injuries.

HairyFrotter · 14/07/2011 22:32

I gave birth on my back THROUGH CHOICE! I was too knackered to squat and would have done the same on my own bed or wherever I was. How many of the women in your beloved stats were forced onto their backs spud?