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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To pick my children up whenever I see a stafforshire bull terrier?

209 replies

DarlingDuck · 11/07/2011 21:41

I am really frightened of bull terrier type dogs, my brother and I were chased by a pit bull when we were young and our dog was attacked and almost died. Whenever I see a stafforshire bull terrier I cross the road, aibu?

OP posts:
Empusa · 11/07/2011 23:17

"If a dog's on a lead or not, out of control or not, aggressive, whether the owners look normal or deranged etc, all seem more relevant than what type of dog it is."

Quite.

I have to be wary round other dogs as our dog is shit scared of basically all other dogs. Especially little ones Hmm which is interesting seeing as he is a 38lbs! So when we are out walking I do have to be on guard, and it's not the breed which is the biggest indicator of trouble by any stretch.

DogsBestFriend · 11/07/2011 23:23

Tell me about it, Empusa. My elder GSD is long haired so looks even heavier than he is. That didn't stop a teeny JRT x terrier breaking away from his owner and circling whilst snarling and snapping at a very bemused and scared Fish yesterday!

Purpleswimmingtiger · 11/07/2011 23:23

Get a grip!
A Staffie is NOT a Pitbull.

Empusa · 11/07/2011 23:25

DBF It seems to be mostly westies picking on our boy around here. Confused

Scuttlebutter · 11/07/2011 23:57

OP, so sad to read your post. It's natural and right to teach your DC to be wary around dogs they don't know, and to teach them how to interact with them cautiously and gently, without shouting, screaming or waving arms around - that's common sense. But crossing the road, or picking them up seems a big over-reaction.

As a dog owner myself I completely agree with posters who dislike being bounced on in the park - I loathe it. However, that is very much though the fault of inconsiderate owners, not the dogs themselves.

In the very rare cases where dogs have seriously hurt children, this has not been in a street environment or in parks, but has happened when dogs and children have been poorly supervised together, usually in a home environment belonging to the family member of the child, rather than their immediate parental family unit. All responsible dog owners (of all breeds) try to avoid leaving small children alone with dogs - in the same way as they would lock cupboards, and put away matches. If this is not done, then there may be problems with ANY breed of dog.

Would also agree there is a huge amount of confusion apparent in breed description. OP says her fear is based on an experience with a pit bull yet is scared of Staffies - a completely different breed. That's like me saying I was bitten by a greyhound but now avoid bassetts as they are both hounds.

iscream · 12/07/2011 00:32

Tchootnika, I am an anxious person, and it is very hard for me to overcome my fears. If owners could be relied upon to muzzle large dogs, I would feel a lot safer. I have seem news stories and articles as I am sure most people have, of victims of pit bull attacks and those images stay with me.

salsmum · 12/07/2011 00:42

I have owned 2 rescue staffies. Sadly my 'velcro' staffy passed away with cancer 2 years ago aged 15. I now only have a 6 yr old staffie. Both my dogs were/are obedient and soppy. Everyone in my Road loved my old staff ...even people who didn't own dogs, the children used to pet him and he was very gentle. Any dog who is beaten,battered and neglected can turn aggressive but working at rescues with staffies they are always the most forgiving. I have only once been bitten by a dog as a child which was a poodle. My son was bitten once by a dalmation NEVER any of my rescue Staffies. I think YABU to tar staffies with the same brush as Pit Bulls as laid down by the DDA they are entirely different breeds. SBT are particularly protective and tolerant of children and I have found that they are very deserving of the title 'Nanny Dog'.
They will alert the owner if a child is in danger and have saved lives...BUT that doesn't make the news Sad

Morloth · 12/07/2011 04:14

I think staffies are victims of their unfortunate looks. My sister has two and they are big cuddle muffins but they are look intimidating.

They have the personality of a golden in the body of a pitbull and that is very sad. Because big stupids get them because they look mean, find out they aren't so they dump them. Families don't want them because they look mean. But there are lots of them about because of the big stupids.

What annoys me about these threads is the dog lovers' always insisting that kids shouldn't be afraid of dogs, small monkeys being afraid of big wolves makes perfect sense. My kids are both wary of dogs, they know to ask me and then the owner before approaching a dog. They know to stay away from the farm dogs. A little bit of fear is a good idea when you are very small IMO.

Geese suck most of my hatred towards all birds comes from being attacked my a goose as a kid. On the upside I have a soft spot for Rotties because it was one of those that attacked the goose involved.

Fuck I hate birds, I can't understand how anyone can have one around.

creighton · 12/07/2011 07:29

Can someone tell me why DogsBestFriend has brought race into this discussion? Have any of you reported her/it? All mass murderers in this country are white, all nursery child abusers are white, does that mean I should run from these people when I see them? I was jumped on for distastefully bringing race into a thread a few weeks ago, why is this person not being treated in the same way?

As for aggressive looking dogs, you are free to react anyway you like, remove your children if it makes you feel okay.

PaperBank · 12/07/2011 08:23

I think it's unreasonable to expect non-dog-lovers to know all about the various breeds and their temperaments/probable behaviour.

QuietTiger · 12/07/2011 08:44

FFS Creighton, Dogsbestfriend was using an analogy, she wasn't slagging off black people! not that she needs me to defend her, because she's more than capeable of putting you in your place herself

The problem with dogs is that people get them as pets and don't understand their needs or their behaviour. Border Collies for e.g. (and I use that example because they are "my breed").

They are highly inteligent, need a lot of mental stimulation and need to be mentally challenged, as well as have clear guidance from their "shepherd" or family. People forget they are bred to do a job. They see them beautifully trained on one man and his dog, or doing search and rescue and think they can train themselves. If they are allowed to get bored (and this is VERY common in a family home) they become frustrated and "look" for jobs to do. They are nippy, because they bite or nip the cattle or sheep to make them move and go where they want.

BC's don't differentiate between small children and sheep, they consider small children their flock. If they are not managed or trained correctly, they will then herd the kids and it becomes common to nip them... They are NOT vicious or snappy, they are misunderstood and in the WRONG environment. They are not an ideal family pet for the average joe who leaves the dog at home on its own all day, works, with the kids at school and can only walk a dog for an hour a night. They are an ideal pet for someone who is active and able to provide good mental stimulation.

As to "misunderstanding" - we had a BC come back to us from her home because she had "savaged the grandchild". What had in fact happened, was the owner was feeding bits of cheese by throwing them to her 3 year old grandchild across the room, and the dog (who in 4 years had never shown any agression) snapped at the cheese that was thrown through the air. As she jumped, she knocked the 3 year old over.

The rescue I work with has a "take back the dog, no questions apart from the dumb ass excuse you're going to give to justify dumping your dog " policy. We got a call, "come and get the dog otherwise she'll be PTS for being vicious to children and other dogs". That dog wasn't vicious, she was going after cheese that she thought was for her. Fortunately, she's now in a home where she is understood... with 4 other dogs and 2 grandchildren.

SBT's - another VERY misunderstood dog. They "look hard", they are as soft as shit. Infact, they are so unruly and poorly behaved, the kennel club had a rescue SBT in its Good Citizen display team at Crufts this year. My friend lost count at 263 of the number of people who asked what breed the dog her dog was, because they didn't believe he was a rescue SBT because he was "so well behaved".

Deed not breed. Any dog can be dangerous.

The best thing you can do, is train your child not to run up to strange dogs and pat them when they are not expecting it. Always ask the owner if it's OK to approach the dog. An example as to why - my elderly BC is very grumpy, because she has arthritis. She doesn't like being mauled by children, because it hurts. My neices (2 & 7) know that if they are very gentle, they can stroke her, because otherwise it hurts. They had a friend with them once, with her mother (7 years old, so old enough to know better) who started pulling her about and my dog growled a warning growl because it hurt. The next thing I know, the mother is ranting about how my dog is vicious. She's not vicious at all, she's elderly.

People expect dogs to have higher standards than themselves. God Knows why.

Oh and Morloth - good call for your kids to respect farmdogs. A lot of them "DO" bite. including one of ours.

creighton · 12/07/2011 08:59

don't swear at me, i don't swear at any of you. why wasn't an analogy used about nasty white people, asians, travellers, blacks were mentioned, but not white people. i can understand that you want me put in my place, i don't have the right to talk back to any of you. she lowered the tone of the conversation but you swear at me.

lubberlich · 12/07/2011 09:00

I had no idea what breed(s) my mutt was when I rescued her as a puppy. She turned out to be half staffie and I was concerned.
But I was an ignorant twonk.
They are the most glorious dogs and fantastic around kids - I wouldn't hesitate to get more. She is now 14 years old, blind and cantankerous and I can bear to consider life without her.

ANY dog that is encouraged to be aggressive and treated badly (by arsehole lads thinking they are status dogs) can be iffy.
Personally I am more wary of little yappy terriers than a big Rottie.

Never approach a dog you don't know without checking with the owner if they are "ok" to be touched and let the dog come to you.
Simple rule of thumb.

squeakytoy · 12/07/2011 09:02

Creighton, the last time I looked "travellers" were white too.

It was a comparison, and you are being ridiculous to try and see anything other than that in it.

Empusa · 12/07/2011 09:06

"BC's don't differentiate between small children and sheep, they consider small children their flock. If they are not managed or trained correctly, they will then herd the kids and it becomes common to nip them..."

Ah, that explains why me, DH and our dog got herded by two BC's. Bloody stupid owner just stood by and watched, while our increasingly distressed dog desperately tried to protect himself.

As has been pointed out many many times, it isn't the breed, it's the owners.

Staffies may well be involved in more attacks, but if you look at how many of them are mistreated and in bad homes compared to other breeds then you've got your answer right there.

QuietTiger · 12/07/2011 09:13

Empusa - your example explains perfectly why some people should not be allowed dogs!

That owner should have had a handle on the behaviour and been able to call those dogs off instantly. More so in a public place. That level of stupidity is unacceptable as a dog owner - they only need to nip the wrong person (or dog) and their owner would have signed their death warrant. One of the first things we always teach our collies (apart from recall) is "LEAVE IT!!" and for the first 6 months of our BC puppys life, he thought his name was "GLen, NO!" Grin

SybilBeddows · 12/07/2011 09:14

it is a very problematic analogy though. Because there ARE general differences in dog behaviour according to breed, are even though there is obviously variation within that group too. But there are NOT behavioural differences between different ethnic groups of people; race is skin deep with people the way breed is not with dogs. Eg people on here have said 'I would get a Staffie because actually they're great with kids' but we would think someone was a loon if they said 'I'm getting a black nanny because they're great with kids.'
So it is actually a hell of a lot less rational to have assumptions about people of a particular ethnicity than it is to have assumptions about dogs of a particular breed, so the analogy that argues that we'd think you were a racist if you had these assumptions about people doesn't prove anything about how rational it is to have assumptions about dogs, UNLESS you think there are also racial differences between people.

Empusa · 12/07/2011 09:16

Haha!

We've had so many encounters with idiots who do not think they need to train their dogs (no staffies so far though), it drives me mad because it's idiots like those who make the rest of us dog owners look bad by association. And cause all the negatives views seen in this thread.

QuietTiger · 12/07/2011 09:44

::Puts on flame proof suit::

SybilBeddows - you make a very valid point. Maybe it would have been better to use "cultural difference" rather than "racial difference" when making the point.

For e.g. - And I stress, I am not being racist, I am making a point and using an example.

There is no question that Middle Eastern Fundamentalist Muslims have a VERY different culture to Biblebelt Midwest USA Fundamentalist Christians.

They have general differences in behaviour according to their culture, in the same way there are differences in dog behaviour according to breed. If you are using an analogy.

That behaviour or belief system is not right or wrong, but the misconceptions and biggoted misinformation about each others religion, is enough to make them think that each other is "evil" and either "infidel" or "spawn of satan" depending on the culture.

It is "misinformation" that is applied to dogs (and the fact that any moron can have one) and especially the "hard looking" breeds. Take the Rottweiler - they are pastoral dogs that were the herding dogs of ancient Rome. Quite apart from the fact they were bred for the protection of soldiers and livestock, they were also bred to drive cattle to market! They are herding dogs! Take the poodle - it was originally bred as a retriever to retrieve waterfowl and game fowl shot by its owner. It's a retriever!

I better get off my soap box. Grin

motherinferior · 12/07/2011 09:47

As a Staffie has just ripped one of our neighbourhood cats to shreds, I personally am in a distinct YANBU mood.

squeakytoy · 12/07/2011 09:49

But there are NOT behavioural differences between different ethnic groups of people

Of course there are.

misdee · 12/07/2011 09:52

i am starting to love staffies having met loads of lovely ones whilst walking ralphie.

i do avoid little rat-dogs after several have been agressive towardsralphie.

ralphie is a big black labradoodle

CalamityKate · 12/07/2011 09:58

Staffies, depending on how/why they're bred, CAN have a propensity to not being great with other dogs (although all the ones I've met round here have been absolutely fine), but even a dog-aggressive dog isn't necessarily bad with humans. In fact, fighting breeds like Pitbulls (it's very unlikely you've seen a true Pitbull, by the way) HAVE to be good with humans.

Watch some programmes like "Animal Cops Detroit" and similar - without exception, even dogs seized from Dogfighting rings are completely docile with the inspectors. They have to be, otherwise their owners would never survive getting them out of the ring after a fight.

TwoPeasOnePod · 12/07/2011 10:03

QuietTiger Nothing will ever convince me to trust Collies. They are working dogs, dour and unsuitable for a family environment. When I was about 11 I was bitten hard by my grandads collie, it had been in the family for about 5 years, they have acres of land and a boarding kennel so it was very much stimulated and trained/looked after properly, as I was stroking it whilst it was wagging its tail, it suddenly "switched" and bit me. It later did the same thing to my little brother after they had attempted to give it a second chance. It was put to sleep and i was very glad. What kind of dog gives positive cues with its body language then suddenly bites, a proper vicious bite? Not suitable as pets. I hasten to add I have been raised with dogs at all times from being born, I know how to treat them with respect, read their body language, train them etc etc. It is cruel to them (collies, working dogs) to expect them to assume this role, I think you agree on that point by saying they need things to herd.
Also I think it is basically bullshit when people think they have a 'magic command' that can stop a dog no matter what it's doing- it is a fact that some dogs can lose control and the command is irrelevant, as with the collie I described. It had to be physically dragged away. Most don't behave like this though but healthy caution, confidence and awareness never go amiss

DogsBestFriend · 12/07/2011 10:05

creighton, get a grip.