To consider retraining as a barrister?

[princessglitter]

I am a teacher in middle management with a fairly secure, reasonably satisfying career. I have always dreamed of a career in the law. Originally I considered becoming a solicitor, doing a conversion course and going down the LPC route.

However, at the last minute, I lost my nerve and pulled out of my college course. The idea of that amount of debt was horrifying to me.

I trained as a teacher, but has always felt unfulfilled if I'm honest. As I've got older, the idea of retraining as a barrister has become more appealing, but I am acutely aware that so many fall by the wayside. I have secured a mini-pupillage this summer, which I am extremely excited about. I am also going to apply for vacation schemes at solicitors' firms to enable me to make an informed decision.

I do have a strong academic background and an Oxbridge 2.1 - but I know that that alone will not be enough.

Am I unreasonable to take a risk (with my husband's support) and consider a career in the law? Possibly as a barrister, but I intend to research this thoroughly with some real experience in both areas and different specialisms.

Xenia

"I presume the best firms in Manchester would do that and will be recruiting this Autumn for people starting the GDL full time in 2013."

I'm not trying to pick holes but just wanted to correct this for the OP's reference, as the application timetable can be confusing.

The next recruitment cycle starting this Autumn would be as follows (for the majority of firms):

Application - between October 2011 - July 2012 (some have earlier deadlines for "non-law" students i.e. those who need to do the GDL)
GDL - start in September 2012 if full-time (obviously earlier if PT)
LPC - Start in September 2013
TC - start in September 2014 (or in some cases where the firm has a split intake, March 2015).

You're right. I'm a year out. My oldest applied when she started the GDL as she planned a gap year after the LPC and got funding retrospectively that year and started almost 3 years hence.
So this person would apply this Autumn to start the TC in 2014.

Eg DLA Manchester profits per partner £460,000 pa quick google search, might be wrong.

I urge you to think carefully about this.
I was called in 2001 and practised for 3 years in crime. I left because I just knew that the criminal bar is not compatible with a happy home life. Alcohol use, punishing hours, huge delay in receiving fees, huge up front expenses- and that's just the lifestyle element of the bar.

Please think carefully about your motives for considering a move into the legal profession. You didn't state initially which area of law you wish to work in - I appreciate you later expanded and said crime family or medical negligence ( more on this shortly) - and this suggests to me that you are interested in the status or the profession as opposed to the actual work involved. To say "shall I be a barrister" is a bit like asking "shall i eat some cheese" : hard or soft, smelly or mild, English or French, blue or yellow, pasteurised or not, sheep or cows, cheddar or Stilton, do you get my drift?

A practice as a commercial barrister is a very different existence to a criminal one. There are regional differences too. Differences in remuneration. I won't go on as others have posted very accurately about the realities of the legal profession.

Don't be fooled into thinking that "oh I'll be a solicitor then, that'll be easy". It's not.

Are you seeking a job which you feel adequately advertises your Oxbridge pedigree? If so go for it but be prepared fir failure. Those who survive the bar or soliciting are those who are passionate about the subject matter they practice. I would be a millionaire (or at least mortgage free) for every person I know who has been more interested in the prestige and they either fail to get anywhere or the drop out.

If on the other hand you truly are interested in the areas you mention you are a fool! It's not like the telly you know, you'll be no kavanagh QC, no Fiona Shackleton and no Erin brocovitch securing justice you know. Sorry to be brutal but I'm only saying what you friends are thinking but wont say.

Please think of your family, you earn a great wage, have holidays to due for and occupy a position which people truly respect. You will be giving this up for a pittance, for huge stress even if you make it (arguably even more so) and a lonely life. I have seen it. Bur that's assuming you even make it- you probably won't.

Sorry if you think I'm being rude but you are more likely to fail than not. You are mistaken in thinking those who don't get pupillage are people who had no place on the course although I'll grant you there are such people.

You could always put a sign on your front door saying "I got an average degree from a top university" - it'll be better than "repossessed".

Maybe you should also ask your kids if they are happy to kiss bye to mummy save for 10 minutes a day on weekends.

Please don't do it.

Crime doesn't pay
family is terrible.
Medical negligence - you actually WANT to become an ambulance chaser?!

Sorry for the rant, if I can save just one person .....

Sorry for all the typos bloody auto correct

My reason for being vague about which areas I would like to work in is because I want to actually experience as many different areas as possible before narrowing it down. I think it is sensible not to commit to one area too early. At the moment it is just an idea which I intend to spend this year researching.

I thought a 2.2 was an average degree. Plus the friends I have been speaking to have exactly the same academic qualifications as I do. Please don't think I'm assuming my qualifications are anything special in this field.

I don't think without knowing me you can assume I will fail!

"family is terrible"

Amen to that. It's a bloody horrible job which is why I'm building up my own freelance will writing business so I can the day job in.

Statistically, princess, you will.

Please listen to what people are saying to you. Re-read all the posts on here, show them to hubby. All my friends who are still at the bar are utterly miserable. All my friends who are solicitors are either poor and knackered or well off and knackered. There is no pot of gold at the bottom of that rainbow. Please don't do it. You also risk being dismissed as a cliche- do you also dream of writing a book?

If you really want to do law then do it - but expect it to be pretty crap. Because it is, for the most part.

(sorry)

I'm so glad I'm a civil engineer.

I am not a statistic. No I don't dream of writing a book.

I also don't know many other people who could work fulltime, with an evening job and run a home whilst bringing up 3 under 5s.

But princess you are! Therein lies the problem- there are many who haven't made it who feel the same way: "well IM good enough""I'll be fine, I'll definitely get pupillage". They are a part if a big unhappy statistic now.

As for cliche, all I'm saying is that established professional in law have a tendency ime of treating late comers with suspicion (not to mention clients).

I've re- read your op. You seem to be talking about fulfilment (which explains why you are coming at it from a 'let's see which area if law' pov). Join a community group or go into local politics- be an advocate by all means, just please reconsider the law. The reality will not match your fantasy.

Well done princess, here is your medal

Medical negligence - you actually WANT to become an ambulance chaser?!

Now that comment has pissed me off. I am a med neg lawyer. Poppy please arrange to come to my offices and I will show you some of my files where people have been left crippled, dead, brain damaged or very very ill never to recover becasue of either straight negligence (the doctor screwed up) or systemic failings within a hospital or GP failure to refer.

It makes me SO angry to be referred to as an ambulance chaser. The work i do is justified 100%. If you samw half the things i did, you'd never want to go to hospital again.

I am a barrister. I got a 2:1 from Cambridge, did the PDGL part time while working full time and got distinction, got a scholarship from my Inn, got a distinction on the BVC and got a pupillage and tenancy. My chambers imploded when I was 9 months qualified (6 years ago now). I had been working solidly for the 9 months with a lot of hotel stays and travelling. I was paid last year. If DH hadn't been working we couldn't have paid the mortgage or bills. I was offered a third six pupillage but no more tenancies because most people have firsts. I am now a solicitor.

I have friends still at the bar. My mate is a senior junior doing employment law. She is the only person DD can accidentally phone at 5.45am who will answer because she is on a train somewhere. She is constantly travelling and putting off having children again and again because she can't work out when she would see them.

This really isn't a good time and IME, you really need an Oxbridge first to give you the best possible chance of tenancy. I am very glad I changed. If I'd carried on, I don't think I could have had children (admittedly partly due to my speciality but it isn't that rare). DD's best friend has a dad who is a criminal barrister. He is away from home Monday to Friday every week with work on Sunday to prepare for Monday. It is a horrible life.

I chose my area of law on the basis of being offered chocolate biscuits at my interview for articles

Could you make contact with your local CAB to see if you could help them or they have an advocacy group? They would train you and you could get some really hands on experience and see what you would enjoy. You really really don't need to give up your job and rush to qualify as a barrister,

A%23%23%23 I completely understand. One of the big reasons I originally studied law was because my cousin was left brain damaged and in wheelchair with appalling physical injuries after an accident. I was fascinated by the talk of mr Percival his counsel.

Apologies for the sweeping generalisation- the terrible "have YOU had an accident" adverts do a disservice to the great work people like you do. No disrespect intended.

That's ok Poppy

I'm sorry too. I just see red when my work gets called ambulance chasing as alot of it is 100% justified and has occurred through shocking negligence. One of my worst cases I worked on years ago invloved someone dying as the hospital sat on the client's test results and didn't action them. The death was 100% avoidable and the client would have been fine with treatment.

But you're right, those adverts are awful and they encourage everyone on the street to want to make a claim.

IME the mature entrants who are most successful are those who have direct knowledge to bring to the profession ie the medical professionals who do PI/med neg or the engineers who do construction etc.

That is a very good point. In my field medical negligence I have met alot of ex nurses and doctors who have become solicitors or barristers. Their inside knowledge is invaluable to us and saves so muhc time if you have them on hand.

But teaching.... I dont really see how it'll translate into law.

I suppose teaching will give the confidence and ability to stand up in front of people and not go completely tongue tied. It probably also has a bit of how to create and follow an argument and the preparation needed. But being a barrister really is a completely different challenge.

I think the most accurate comparison I could make is preparing it to taking A-levels every day - it was that kind of frantic cramming and preparation.

I think it sounds pretty risky if you want my opinion. There is a high risk you'll get the qualification and then not get a place in a chambers. I think speak to some barristers you know in RL to gauge what they think.

FWIW my SIL wanted to be a barrister but decided it wasn't compatible with kids (she is a solicitor) and one of the mums in my DD's class qualified as a barrister but hasn't been able to practise since she had kids since its such an all or nothing profession.