to be p'd off at being told I'm selfish for not having kids?

[Anna1976]

I commented to MIL that after working nights all week, with the flu, that I was looking forward to sleeping in tomorrow. It produced the usual "your sister/ sister in law never get lie-ins, they work hard and don't get paid your salary, but the world only respects people with money, not the ones who do all the work".

This is symptomatic of my family's attitude. According to all the mothers in the family, they are all martyrs who are not appreciated for working themselves to the bone. Anyone who has not had children is not a real person, and deeply selfish.

If they feel like that, why did they have the kids in the first place?
I did ask my mother that once, but she took it as evidence of my deep-seated selfishness and insolence.

Yes I get it Mum, sister, SIL, MIL etc... you love your kids and you work hard for them because that's what being a parent is about, but why do you have to hate people who haven't made that life choice?

And oh god parents can be selfish. Madly selfish. We are selfish not so much on our own behalf but on behalf our 'family unit'. We make decisions, frequently, that are in our own best interests - educationally, medically, you name it - saying quite explicitly 'our children come first'. That kind of selfishness is openly sanctioned.

I believe it is never appropriate to judge a persons choice of whether to have children or not. This is invasive and in some circumstances could be hurtful. It is amazing how inconsiderate some people can be sometimes. I have a friend who has had multiple miscarriages who has been subjected to this type of comment.

I have a family who take the opposite stance to OP. It irks me. I try to ignore it but it does get to me because I like being SAH.

Of course they are being unreasonable. Not having children is a sensible thing to do if you don't want them. Better than having them and then not giving a s**t.

that's a new one on me, most people I encounter at the moment seem to be arguing that mothers are destroying the planet by having even one child. Seriously, the way people are politicizing the decision whether or not to have children seems to most selfish thing of all. Its an incredibly personal decision. It sounds like your family have rather old-fashioned ideas about the role of women but who cares what they think?

It's an individual's choice to have children (providing they are abe to), YANBU.

YANBU, OP. It's the choice of those concerned. And nobody else's damned business.

You may like to know that men without children or before children (as I remember) are sometimes reminded - when for example they refuse extra Saturday or evening hours - that "My children will pay your pension" to which I remember answering "Yes, and somebody else will pay theirs, and if I never have a child I won't be leaving a future pensioner, will I?" - to which there is no possible answer.

OP, I have no DC but am TTC. I completely agree with you that just because you don't have children it doesn't mean you're selfish. Equally, having children doesn't automatically make you unselfish. Plus it's no-one's business but yours whether or not you have children, PLUS I don't like the martyr-like attitude of your in-laws.

BUT I do have to ask, why did you come on to Mumsnet to post your dilemma? You almost seem to be deliberately picking a fight. Maybe live your life the way you want and don't worry so much about getting the approval of people you have no desire to emulate.

Or are you just attention-seeking?

Being childless means I can live a more selfish life, for sure!

But that doesn't mean "I'm selfish". Every choice brings its own penalties & rewards. Life's a trade-off. Your DM, MIL, SIL, etc are all BU.

Can't say people go on at me for being selfish, though, so perhaps something in your attitude winds them up??

OP, YANBU.

It seems to me that woman are told we're selfish if we have kids, we're selfish if we don't have kids. Your MIL was out of order.

As someone going through fertility issues, I've been told I'm selfish for considering IVF, for not considering adoption, for considering not having kids at all, for not having had the foresight to start TTC earlier (during my first abusive marriage perhaps?), for not just 'sucking up' not being able to conceive naturally... judgeypants everywhere.

YANBU.

Having children is an entirely selfish act. Once you have them selfishness has to take a back seat to a large extent but that doesn't alter the fact that chooisng to perpetuate your genes, is as selfish as you can get.

Rhinestone she might've come on here because she wanted the opinions of mums, and to see if they are all as crazy as her in-laws.

OP I am DCless right now - I would like to start TTC in the future - like you, I came on MN to see the realities of parenting. Unlike you, it's made me think I want to go ahead in the near future. But that's a personal thing

I don't remotely get the posters giving you a pasting for being 'tiresome', 'self-involved' etc. Surely all of us have had a little moan at some point about 'Gah I'm so tired I just worked ten straight days' or 'God, I haven't been able to sleep properly for days' or whatever.

It is just normal, like complaining about the weather or your car insurance or whatever. To retort by saying you don't know what tiredness is really says to me that they have an agenda - they sound like those tiresome people who always need to shoe-horn some particular hobby-horse into a conversation, be it immigration, taxes, the Tories, or how friggin' martyred they are because they have children.

Disengage - they have more to lose than you because they'll be alienating a free babysitter!!