To be annoyed my DH had a naked private dance

[maybunny]

OK my DH wasnt naked, but the stripper in the stripclub in Los Angeles was :-(
He went to LA on business (PR - so mostly socialising rather than what I consider 'work'!) last month, and he has only just told me that a colleague paid for him to have a private dance after they all went to a strip club. I was most annoyed because he had kept it a secret from me for a few weeks, and that he had put 'saving dace' in front of colleagues before my feelings.
He said he thought I would be a bit annoyed about it which was why he hadnt told me about it at the time (esp as I was having huge sleep problems with DD - ie surviving on 2 hours a night!)
I am so upset about this and apart from apologising (which he has done now he knows how I feel) I dont know wht he can do to make me feel better. I am realy struggling to forgive him.
:-(

He actually felt sorry for her having to literally compete with meat

Some men don't actually see the difference

Strip clubs help to perpetuate that mindset.

I'm just glad my DP doesn't feel the need to pay a woman to feign interest in him/get naked in front of him. He said it smacks of desperation, and he'd never be that desperate.

And as for Men on business trips to LA are going to end up in various seedy dives, drinking too much, checking out the hotel TV porn & doing other daft blokey things

Awwwwww bless them! Poor little men can't control themselves can they? Let's infantilise them why don't we?

i would find it unacceptable too

its a form of prostitution, he is buying a women for a period of time for his own pleasure

maybe if you put it to him like that and ask why he thinks that ok he may think about it from a different perpective than just well everyone else does it now

He told you and you reacted badly, he won't tell you next time. What would you prefer?

My DH knows it would be over if he did this. Fortunately, he finds it all a bit tasteless so never has done.

Of course, he could always be lying... but I doubt it. If I ever found out he'd done this, it would be over.

Primarily because he'd not be the person I thought he was after all.

Al, should she pretend she is OK with it then ?

I mean, what do you suggest ? Put up and shut up ?

how it might be indicative of greater sins I would reassure you and say that the opposite is probably true

Based on nothing more scientific than having lived in Bangkok and Milan (both places where there is a certain tolerance for male business entertainment "proclivities") I'd say at best guess the odds are 50\50.

Incremental confessions have been a notable feature when working with men or their trailing spouses who have found themselves having to deal with an issue almost identical to that of the OP.

I'm not sure why that would surprise anybody. ICs are also a notable feature of spontaneous confessions of an affair, where the spouse is first informed it comprised of "just" flirting, a kiss, an emotional betrayal, just the once, the first time etc. only to discover at a later date that it was considerably more physical, more frequent and not exactly an irregular occurrence throughout their married life.

OP, I have no intention of telling you what you should do, think or feel, we all have our own unique blend of relationship history, circumstance and lines in the sand.

I do believe however that in a state of shock it right not occur to somebody who has not had prior experience of this sort of thing that face value cannot always be trusted as being the whole picture. Whatever you decide to do I think you are owed the opportunity to make those choices or resolutions from a position of being informed of the full extent of the breech of trust. It may have been exactly as he relayed it, it may not. Whether you choose to dig deeper or feel you can take his at his word is your call. You know him and what he is capable of doing. I don't.

I wish you both no more bombshells and a swift return to feeling on solid ground again. If you need any support in that process that you can't get in RL then the relationships board is a really good place to check out. These things are not always dealt with at light speed and you may find you have an emotional "hangover" from it for a while. Don't feel you have to struggle with that alone if talking it out and being listened to would help.

Big fat hug love, I'm so sorry this got dropped on you.

My DH and I have enjoyed stripping and sexy dancing in private on occasions when we have had the house to ourselves.

I would always get turned on by the lustful way he looked at my face and body. And of course, we would end up making love.

I have not done this with him since 4 years ago when I found out he went to a strip club on my cousin's stag weekend party. I was very disappointed in him as he knows how I feel about this sort of thing and was surprised at some of the other men who went in. 3 of the party refused to go to the strip club and went drinking elsewhere. So if he couldn't have been a leader why not be a sheep and follow the dissenters instead?

Enjoying a live dance from a naked lady is very a intimate act and is a betrayal when the man is married

I did let this go as I felt pressured to cos 'his wife and his wife' were OK with it as it was a stag do! Still married men though!

Unfortunately it does affect how you think of the person you married and wonder how much he really thinks of you that he can do that when it is so easy to walk away.

I would chuck him out if he ever did it again.

doll, that is such a shame thet your husband tarnished something that you had done for fun, together

what a stupid and selfish thing to do

I don't blame you for feeling that you don't want to strip for him any more...he ruined something that was for just you two to enjoy for a cheap thrill

fuzzpig wrote "Some of them actually stand by their convictions (if they have any of course) and consider their families."

Hmmm. I think OP said he works in PR! I don't want to shatter her illusions about DH but every day he will be making little compromises of principles and convictions in the interests of his clients - presumably in order to help support his family. Better not encourage him to stand by his convictions too dogmatically or he's likely to be out of a job!

I agree with microfight that if he genuinely wanted to refuse but was too weak to say so then that's a bit wimpy. It's more likely he doesn't feel that strongly about the propriety of such places one way or the other (there are a range of views), nor did he feel he was being unfaithful to OP in any way - a strip club is a fantasy world one step up from a porn flick - he knows very well that the dancer is an actress who doesn't fancy him or want to go home with him. Furthermore, the context was the world of work, colleagues and clients - not of family. It's not necessarily any more to do with his relationship with OP than her finding some bloke who isn't him fancyable. In either case, it only means as much as it means. Maybe that's why he felt able to tell her. However, if she feels threatened or disconcerted by such behaviour she needs to say precisely that and that she prefers that he behaves differently because it means something to her and she finds it upsetting.

I did let this go as I felt pressured to cos 'his wife and his wife' were OK with it

This is a horrible feature of the expansion of the sex trade into "the mainstream".

When I first moved to BKK myself and my peers were horrified at the extent to which societal pressure meant women had no choice other than to accept their spouses being consumers of the sex trade in its various guises. While privately many expressed hurt, outwardly one had to keep on smiling and accept it as the norm.

The tool of coercing women to submit to acceptance may be different (being cool, not being a prude, not being "uptight", not being abnormally sensitive\demanding\controlling) but I don't see the goal or method as any different to the reality of BKK. Men wanted to have their cake, eat it and make trifle out of it so their wives are effectively bullied into accepting an unlevel playing field that puts her at risk of emotional and physical harm.

Aside form what it potentially costs our generation, who really wants this sort of power imbalance and coercion to conform to become normalized within a relationship for their sons' and daughters' generation ?

Fuck that for a game of soldiers. There are many social features I'd happily import from Thailand. But this mindset is not one of them.

I'd be disgusted by his cowardice and weakness.

Men who think there is nothing wrong with paying women to writhe around on their laps, are skanks and undeserving of further consideration. Men who know there's something wrong with it but do it because they are afraid of being thought less of by skanky colleagues, are almost less attractive in a way, because moral cowardice can be more of a problem than weak-headed idiocy.

Idiots can change their mind, see the light and stop being idiots, but integrity is something really deep seated - I don't know how people get it, whether it is learned and whether it comes from certainty about what you believe - perhaps your DH didn't have it because he's not that informed about the political arguments around this sort of thing? Lots of men vaguely know there's soemthing not quite right about strippers etc., but because the facts about the sex industry aren't widely known, they find it difficult to pin point exactly what's wrong with it and when confronted with a "Why not?" don't have an answer because they're not sure of their ground. So they end up acting like moral cowards, which shakes the view of how we see them and dents our respect for them.

Do you think it would help if you went through the reasons why this is shit behaviour and a shit thing to do so that he actually gets it? Because I think maybe the reason you find it difficult to forgive him for this, is because his behaviour has changed the way you see him and altered the level of respect you have for him. If the cause of that altered perception isn't rooted out and dealt with, then that change in perception and respect, is going to be there forever and it will mean that your marriage is less happy than it would have been. Does he realise what a massive impact that this incident potentially has? Because I think you need to make it clear, it's not a case of "FGS get over it, I apologised, what else can I do", it's about the root of how you see him as a person and as a husband.

Please ignore everyone who tries to tell you that your feelings about this aren't valid, Maybunny, you have every right to feel really shattered by this - it's not the naked dancing - it's your view of your husband, the father of your child, and it matters and you have a right to have your feelings taken seriously. I'm so sorry you're going through this and I hope you sort it all out.

It doesn´t really matter what anyone else thinks about whether or not it´s acceptable to them, does it?

OP is annoyed & imo is NBU for that.

I´d also be disappointed.

I think it´s sad that this has become so acceptable as "business behaviour".

I would have thought taking a potential client to a strip club would have made someone not want to do business with them.

But I also think his "saving face" behaviour is awful.

What else might he be talked into on a business trip?

I really feel for you OP and I completely sympathise with your feelings. My DH has been to strip clubs a few times on stag dos etc, despite knowing that I despise everything they stand for. The standard response is 'its just a bit of fun'. It infuriates me that the idea of women being paid to dance for men is fun and inconsequential, when we can look all around us and see the effects of the 'normalisation' of the sex industry.

Quite a few female friends of mine are more than happy for their DPs to have private dances etc. I agree with many other posters when they say that there is a pressure for women to be cool with it but I never have and I have had some extremely heated debates with friends about this (one involving the classic line 'you're just jealous' - I haven't see her since).

I believe my DH when he says that he has never had a private dance, and if I suspected he had I'd be absolutely livid. I'm pretty sure that he'd never go to a club again, particularly now that we have a DD.

I hope that you manage to resolve things with your DH and find a way to get over this.

YANBU and I don't get the "saving face" thing. I would feel humiliated if my mates saw me enjoying the attentions of another man, or paying for that attention. What about setting the example that you are in a committed relationship that doesn't include this kind of quasi accepted philandering?

I went to a strip club once a long time ago with colleagues (male and female) and totally lost all respect for the married guys who paid for lap dances, etc. One had a wife in hospital who'd just given birth and the baby was at risk. He shouldn't have even been out, much less in that environment. Disgusting.

"I would feel humiliated if my mates saw me enjoying the attentions of another man"

I've been to a few 'ladies' nights', Chippendale-type strip shows and I've also been to a few male-oriented lap-dancing clubs. What struck me most was the difference in response from the two audiences. As in The Full Monty, the female audience is not humiliated but whoops, hollers, screams with laughter, and generally has a pretty raucous time. The male audiences I've witnessed are quite a subdued bunch by comparison.

I'm just glad my DP doesn't feel the need to pay a woman to feign interest in him/get naked in front of him. He said it smacks of desperation, and he'd never be that desperate

Doesn't help the OP much does it?

Would you like a medal for your oh so perfect life and DH?

FFS

With all due respect it's the women giving lap dances that are in control, and are treating the men like a piece of meat thus demeaning them.

It wouldn't bother me if DH got one although he said he never would, as he wouldn't want to be treated like that. However, I would love a private lap dance from a woman for the experience.

Firstly - my heart felt sympathy to you OP. I would feel exactly the same.

I have been turning this over in my mind since reading your post early this morn. I can be fairly insecure sometimes, given to feeling not attractive enough for my OH (hes never done anything to make me feel this - its just me) and would be hurt as hell to picture him enjoying another womans naked body in a setting like that.

I feel you need tosit down with him, as others have said, and talk it through again. You need to know that he understands how hurt you are.

I would very much like to point out something else i've been thinking....

Knee jerk reaction is "How would he like it if you went to a male strip show?". I thought this too when i read your post. However - as mentioned above - most male strip shows are Full Monty esque, on stage, bit of a joke, embarrased screeching if the blokes go into the crowd affairs. Girls go in a group with friends (and their old mums in some cases!) for a laugh. Not working themselves and each other up into going off to masturbate in front of a naked 18 year old guy. With a bit more chucked in for a bit of cash. Nope. No comparison.

If a true comparison to mens seedy strip clubs WERE easily available for women to visit - full of naked young guys - i wonder how men would take well it if/when their wives and GFs went? If we went there on hen nights? For a laugh? For a 'business' meeting? Because we couldnt say 'no'?

Just never going to happen is it? I have 3 daughters and worry about the way the world is going.

Good luck OP. And an un'mumsnet type

With all due respect it's the women giving lap dances that are in control, and are treating the men like a piece of meat thus demeaning them.

this is sadly what many women beleive when they first go into this industry, give them a few years and the vast majority end up loathing themselves. the demand is supplied by a certain criteria, once they are past their prime they are tossed aside so it is all about what the customer wants and always will be its purely about the customers needs

NoobyNoob- I'm not talking about the OP situation there, if you'd read my other posts, I've sympathised with her actually.

I was talking about the posters who seem to think that men paying for private dances is OK and you should shouldn't be bothered about which is completely undermining how she feels about it,

So you can fuck right off there.

"With all due respect it's the women giving lap dances that are in control, and are treating the men like a piece of meat thus demeaning them.

"this is sadly what many women beleive when they first go into this industry, give them a few years and the vast majority end up loathing themselves. the demand is supplied by a certain criteria, once they are past their prime they are tossed aside so it is all about what the customer wants and always will be its purely about the customers needs""

Everyone gets too old to certain things but while they are in their prime, women are definitely in control. Many find it empowering and love knowing they are in full control making a man weak at their command. yes i'm sure there are many dodgy clubs where the woman is not in control, but many are very well-run.

But heck i better get to a strip club quick before the strippers reach their prime, as I wouldn't want a dance of an old skank

"With all due respect it's the women giving lap dances that are in control, and are treating the men like a piece of meat thus demeaning them.

Were that true the sex industry would be automatically be confined by the relatively few customers that enjoy feeling demeaned.

Being demeaned is not hard to spot for your average human, even when they are unable to qualify the feeling with words and have to rely on pure sensation, and would have an "icy bucket of water" effect on the desire to part with cold hard cash for the sake of pleasure.

I would be furious and hurt, to me that is a betrayal and I wouldn't want to be with someone who does that - I would read him the riot act and if he does it again, kick him out. Ask him this - if it's harmless then how about he takes you along to a strip club and you watch him having one of these dances done. After all, if it's okay, he would feel totally comfortable with you seeing what happens! Of course, he would know you would find it upsetting...anything he couldn't do in front of you suggests he shouldn't be doing it full stop! I abhore strip clubs and their like - to me, the transaction of money, the commercialisation of it, doesn't mean it's not cheating. If i was in a bar and some random girl came on to my partner and danced all over him like that, I'd expect him to throw her off him - why does the exchange of money in a strip club change that? Not to mention, in a strip club it's much more sexual and more nudity than when someone comes on to you in a bar or nightclub! The commercialisation of strip clubs makes some women feel they have to be 'ok' with it, when in fact it feels like cheating - it's not okay and in my eyes it IS cheating - if that's how you feel, spell it out to him!

YANBU OP. I would be devastated. However only you know your DH and is this out of character? The fact he told you suggests that he feels awful about it and respects you enough not to be able to hide it from you. I would forgive mine but I know it would take a lot of work. I think the fact he knew you would feel so devastated would stop him doing it again.

Hope you can work it out