To be annoyed my DH had a naked private dance

[maybunny]

OK my DH wasnt naked, but the stripper in the stripclub in Los Angeles was :-(
He went to LA on business (PR - so mostly socialising rather than what I consider 'work'!) last month, and he has only just told me that a colleague paid for him to have a private dance after they all went to a strip club. I was most annoyed because he had kept it a secret from me for a few weeks, and that he had put 'saving dace' in front of colleagues before my feelings.
He said he thought I would be a bit annoyed about it which was why he hadnt told me about it at the time (esp as I was having huge sleep problems with DD - ie surviving on 2 hours a night!)
I am so upset about this and apart from apologising (which he has done now he knows how I feel) I dont know wht he can do to make me feel better. I am realy struggling to forgive him.
:-(

The way these threads always seem to go is that some women say that their DH's should not do such a thing because of the feelings of the wife/partner, which is fair enough.

But if it happened to me, I wouldn't even get as far as thinking why has DH disregarded my feelings and done this. I would be just be absolutely astonished that DH had undergone such a radical personality transformation (or lied to me about who he was for 15 years) that he had become the kind of person who would want to pay a naked woman to writhe about on him, or frequent the kind of establishment where that kind of thing happened. It would be an entirely surreal parallel universe.

Sorry if that is unhelpful OP, but are you astonished that this has happened, or has he always been that kind of person on some level?

I don't think it's a question of whether you are being unreasonable or not. For what it's worth, my advice is to figure out what your problem is with your DH's behaviour in relation to you personally, because that is the only problem worth worrying about, and talk to him honestly about that. Don't expect him to fulfil any duty of consideration for you if you can't fulfil that duty of consideration for him.

The last thing I want to do is chuck another bomb at a woman when she is already reeling.

However I do think you need to leave room for the possibility of incremental confessions.

"Just" a private dance may have (or nay not have) been testing the waters for other activities that have weighed heavily on him guilt wise since he got back from his trip.

It was a breech of trust, and where that occurs it tends not to be the best idea to assume you are absolutely getting the whole truth as opposed to it being an exercise in letting a little steam off the "regret" pressure cooker or drip feeding as an attempt to lessen the shock of the final confession.

In packs men can egg each other on to do truly despicable things that they wouldn't have sought out off their own backs. He may be struggling with telling you the whole truth and chose to see how you reacted to a sanitized version , ie him abandoning the dance and hiding in the toilets.

I think you need to push harder to see if he was confessing to a lesser sin in order to salve his conscience while in damage limitation mode. Use his guilt to make him focus on your personal health risks if he has done even worse and see if that brings anything else up. If he gets defensive (rather than horrified and even more apologetic) about you probing, push much harder and be less trusting that you have been told the truth.

If he has been telling the truth you pushing for full disclosure might be the most effective way to wake him up to the possibility that playing with fire can burn your family home down. Because being taken at your word when you have let somebody down badly, is not a given. So perhaps next time when put in the position of being expected to go to a strip club he'll find the motivation to get a convenient headache and go back to the hotel instead.

I'm so sorry love, this must have been a complete bombshell out of the blue.

Your DH forgot the golden rule which is summed up as 'what goes on tour, stays on tour'. Men on business trips to LA are going to end up in various seedy dives, drinking too much, checking out the hotel TV porn & doing other daft blokey things ... it ain't the Vatican. What most don't do is confess all when they get home. For all those therefore who are casting the runes and talking about loss of trust and how it might be indicative of greater sins I would reassure you and say that the opposite is probably true. He could have saved you all anguish by lying and saying he spent the night watching the evangelist channels with a bottle of mineral water but, for some bizarre reason, he's decided to bare his soul. Take it on face value and try not to be too upset.

I suggest you take on board what fastweb has said and initiate the necessary conversation IF you feel there may be more than has been revealed to date.

As diotima has advised, you need to work out what is causing you personally the most anger or hurt, and what is pushing your buttons.

Is is it the fact that he went to a strip joint, is it the private dance, or is it that he went off on a jolly leaving you to cope alone? Do you feel unconfident about your body, is your sex life as fragemented as your dd's sleep, or do you simply feel angry that these places exist and angry with the men who go to them?

While we may like to delude ourselves think that the object of our adoration stands out from the crowd, even strong-minded individuals have been known to follow the herd when it comes to peer group pressure.

Unless I'd made it absolutely clear that it was an absolute no-no as far as I was concerned, I wouldn't see a one-off or occasional visit to a strip joint or similar establishment as a deal-breaker. I'd more likely be curious about their experience and how it made them feel, before examining how I felt about their attendance.

We're in a continual process of changing and learning. Some values are constant, but maybe you should both take time to review your relationship on a regular basis with a view to amending, where necessary, what is important to your mutual wellbeing.

If you truly love someone surely you can forgive them for the occasional lapse of sound judgement or a temporary fall from grace especially if they offer their sincere and abject apologies with fine jewellery or special treats.

Cogito ain't that the truth, and they always read the book of Gideon before bedtime.

Of course, it isn't just L.A that's a modern-day Sodom & Gomorrah - there's plenty of places to get down and dirty including a town not too far from Sin Vatican City

Grown men should be perfectly capable of saying no if they don't want to do something. As a grown woman, I never do anything I don't want to do, regardless of what 'the pack' are doing.

YANBU at all to be very upest by this. For me, it would be a deal breaker but obviously, only you can decide how to handle this situation and whether your marriage can recover. I think, at the very least, you should make it very clear to your DH that you're going to need time to mull this over and work out exactly how you feel about it. In the meantime, he should respect your wishes and go along with whatever it is you need to help you think clearly.

Cogito - You see I don't see strippers/prostitutes et al as 'daft blokey things' and it pisses me of that women are told to brush off things that make them so (rightfully) unhappy.

If men want to shag about and ogle naked women, they should either check their partner is happy about it, or stay single. But too many wankers want to have their cake and eat it these days and women are meant to be too cool to protest. Fuck that.

All men react differently in these situations. I went to a couple with an ex many years ago and was surprised when a friend of his was so embarrassed he left after just 10 minutes. Luckily for him it was a group of friends he was with and not work colleagues and he felt able to do this.

My ex worked abroad a lot and unfortunately this seems to be the main thing to do when "entertaining" any male visiting your country. Even he was shocked in USA when a woman danced on their table while they were talking and eating steak. He actually felt sorry for her having to literally compete with meat.

I think the main worry is the seedier joints where women consider "private dance" to mean cheeky back handers for extra services. This varies from place to place and obviously some are stricter on this behaviour than others. But then, if any man wants that, you won't stop it just by quizzing him - he would probably have found an excuse to do that anyway. The fact your hubby told you is a good sign, IMO as he is feeling guilty. Definitely talk to him about it and say how uncomfortable it made you to think of him there whilst you were looking after his daughter. I don't think he's alone in being a spineless wimp either, most men would rather waste £100+ than look as though they "aren't man enough" or whatever. Very sad really.

I agree with both Cogito and izzy.

I agree it might have been more tactful for DH not to tell tales on himself if he did something that he personally didn't find sufficiently objectionable to object to but thought it might cause you some anguish.

If you met someone you found rather attractive, flirted ever so slightly and found yourself subject to a small imagining that would probably hurt DH's feeling, would you go and blab to him about it? I would consider the experience to be entirely innocent, harmless and even fun (assuming you didn't take it too seriously!). However, you would seriously risk making it into something else by not keeping it to yourself.

Also, to reinforce izzy's point: although I'm sure you are a perfect wife and companion in every respect, stand out from the crowd, never suffer lapses of judgement, are strong minded in everything and never follow the herd, always consider and comply with DH's expectations of you in thought and deed, etc., you must be patient and accept that no husband has a chance of raising himself up to such a standard and so you must make some allowances for this. Just to hedge your bets that by some aberration you do slip up one day and cause him some offence, bearing in mind that it will his feelings about what you've done rather than yours that matter, it might be worth setting a precedent for tolerance and forgiveness.

I don't agree with the poster who says that shagging and visiting a strip club are the same things. I suspect you would be posting a very different set of question if DH had confessed to the former.

I come back to thinking the best thing to do is to figure out what you feel and why, without cloaking this in justifications, and then talk to him honestly about those feelings without threats or accusations. That is the most effective way of getting him to see your point of view and, maybe, even hearing his (which presumably, given you are perfect, you will want to do ). A marriage has to be based on honesty and trust but with a bit of fair, negotiated and respectful leeway to allow for the fact that we're human and, also, don't always see things the same way.

I know we're all supposed to be touchy feely open with one another, but I'm curious as to his motives for suddenly telling you about this?

Maybe there's an upcoming office do, or it's suddenly occurred to him that one of his fellow strip joint trippers may spill the beans Etti.

Ultimately, OP, only you have the power to make yourself 'feel better'.

If you're in it for the long-haul and for better and for worse, what is a trip to a strip joint or a private lap dance when set against a happy marriage of 25, 30, or 40+ years duration?

The answer is 'meaningless'.

Give him an occasional good-humoured ribbing about it, and use it in your Silver Wedding speech to make him feel 'the man', astound your dcs, and give your guests a laugh.

It would be a deal-breaker for me because DH and I have talked about it and he knows how I feel. Absolutely not. YANBU

It doesn't seem as if Maybunny had set her views down in tablets of stone Cheerful but, even if she had, doesn't genuine penitence warrant forgiveness?

We all fuck up, we all do stupid things, we all do things we may have cause to regret, but in the absence of mercy there's no hope for any of us.

'To err is human; to forgive, divine'. There are some things people do that I find extremely hard to understand let alone forgive, but if my oh paid a one-off visit to a strip club without my knowledge, or against my wishes, I'd be up there with the angels.

Men on business trips to LA are going to end up in various seedy dives, drinking too much, checking out the hotel TV porn & doing other daft blokey things

Rubbish. Not all men turn 'daft' when in a crowd. Some of them actually stand by their convictions (if they have any of course) and consider their families.

"even if she had...."

Not sure about that. I feel very strongly about the porn/strip club/prostitution industry, and DH knows this and we've discussed it. So for me, it would be going against something he knows I'm disgusted by and fully against, and done something he knows I'd be extraordinarily hurt by. So for me personally, it would probably be a deal breaker.

I do know what you mean about forgiveness and it's so important in a relationship of any kind, but on this issue it'd be tough for me.

YANBU anyway, not sure it'd be a dealbreaker though. I have to agree with fastweb as well, I'd be seriously wondering if there was more to this story.

I'd be really mad, as we have already had the deal breaker talk. I hope if he was in that situation he would not be in a strip club in the first place.
I wouldn't throw your dh out over this, because he told you about it, and because you never discussed it. I would make it clear what your expectations are and his as well for future, and maybe he will have to learn how to not get in the situation again with practice making excuses at home.

I'd be extremely unhappy if my dh visited a strip club, let alone accepted a private dance. Not just because he knows I'd be livid unhappy but because he would have contributed and participated in a disgusting, destructive, women hating industry. I don't think it would be a red card, but it would seriously make me think twice about him, and he would know it too.

However, for the OP if she wants to be able to forgive her dh then I think she needs to understand more about why he did it, what actually happened, and what he plans to do another time. It is possible that in his industry visiting strip clubs is standard practice and very difficult to avoid - for me I'd be looking for his plans to change industry - so then he really needs a plan to minimise the chances of being in this situation again.

YANBU
I would have mine out of the house if he'd done this purely for not being able to say no! I have been to these places and I have seen people who have been bought dances and easily stood their ground. No excuse in my book!

Here is a thread with some men's who do not like going to strip clubs, point of view,
www.socialanxietysupport.com/forum/f24/some-fool-invited-me-to-a-strip-club-107464/

Men, not men's.

"Not all men turn 'daft' when in a crowd."

No, it isn't an absolute but I've been involved in enough groups on business trips (organising as well as participating) to confirm that many, even the most family-orientated, butter-wouldn't-melt types, will go along with the crowd on a boys' night out. There's a lot of peer-pressure to not be a spoilsport and if your big money client is in the middle of it all, demanding you join them it's very tough to opt out.

On my bil stag do, they all went to a strip club and out of 23 of them only three did not have private dances. My dh told me this because I beat it out of him because he wanted me to hear it from him rather than third hand.

Dh said he didn't have one, and I believe him, because he is a doctor and is terrified of being struck off for misconduct. I was pissed off that he went but stag dos turn men into pack animals so I had to just let it go.

Anyway, my sister found out and went ballistic. It really was awful but she went ahead with wedding. Two years later she is divorcing him because she still can't let go of what happened (he basically had loads of dances that night). Obviously, there is more to the divorce than that but it p,aged a hefty role.

Op, yanbu.

DH has had one - but only whilst I was in there with him to see what the crack was. Long time ago now.

It's not really a red card situation for me, although I can see from your post how much it has hurt you and I'm sorry for that :(