to think we in the UK have a bloody good life and we should stop bloody whinging?

[WriterofDreams]

This is a rant. Feel free to tell me IABU, as I am not going to be moderate in my views.

I know "what about the starving children in [insert poor country here]" is an endlessly annoying response to any complaint but it's been ringing in my head of late. I know people are struggling financially and being uncertain about the future is very worrying. But I do feel at times it would do us all good to stop and appreciate the huge privilege and good luck we have in living in this part of the world.

Something that will always stay with me is something my sister told me when she was working in Namibia. She had a spare notebook and pen so she gave it to a man who was about to study to be a teacher. He broke down in tears and she got a shock until she realised that this man could never have afforded to buy his own notebook and pen. He considered the gift hugely generous and had to be persuaded to accept it. A nun friend of mine also told me about children in Ethiopia who used to have their pens blessed by the priest in the hopes it would make them keep working. They had one pen to last the whole year and if it stopped working they might not be able to do their exams. Contrast this to my kids at school who would lose expensive handwriting pens left right and centre and expect a new one every time. We had to introduce a reward system to get them to look after them.

I wake up every day in a peaceful country in a dry warm house. I have running water, electricity, gas and a council that looks after the roads and collects the bins (as well as a lot of other things). If I need anything there are any number of shops I can go to where the shelves are constantly well stocked. My son will go to a clean well equipped school with highly trained teachers, for free, and get heaps of bloody handwriting pens, books, and photocopied worksheets. If I'm ill I can go to the doctor, for free, and be seen right away, given the correct medicine or sent to a state of the art hospital where I'll get great care, again for free. I don't have to worry that malaria or yellow fever will kill my family, or that war will tear my country apart.

On the whole I am one of the very very lucky ones.

It's a bit like Marie Antoinette. What are those French peasants bloody whinging about? Don't they know how much better off they are than people across the other side of the world? "Let them eat cake".

Fair enough, you're right about fighting to maintain what we have. But it shoudl be from the point of view that what we have is good.

A lot of this isi "money in pocket" stuff - what I think is just as important to fight for is the intangible quality of life: the freedoms we have, the justices, the equalities we have achieved, the clean air, the attractive surroundings, the altruism, the consideration for others. There is a serious threat to these - it's difficult to calculate their value but they make all the difference when times are hard.

"We keep being told that we have "the best in the world" of nearly everything. They say we have "the best health service in the world", they say "it is the envy of the world". Some people actually believe it and ignore people dying of dehydration and ignore the WHO figures showing where we really are in the world league table for healthcare."

Not sure I'd take those WHO figures that seriously tbh

they rank the US above the UK, and if anyone thinks the US healthcare system as a whole is anything other than totally fucked must have rocks in their head.

Over half of all bankruptcies in the US are what are called medical bankruptcies, brought on by high health costs; many of these are people who had health insurance only to find their condition wasn't covered. That's millions of people over the 2 or 3 years alone brought to bankruptcy from having to pay the insane costs incurred in recieving healthcare there (the highest in the developed world by a big margin). It's also a country with the highest infant mortality rate in the developed world and a lower life expectancy than here.

I'm a million miles away from saying the NHS is the best in the world, it's in definite need of some very serious reforms, but when looking globally I'd be careful how you gauge success in health care. I do know the NHS is looked at by a lot of other people around the world with a fair bit of envy.

Agree, we need to fight and complain and whinge to maintain all of our liberties and all of our services, which have been paid for by all of us. What we have is good, and what we deserve is even better. The struggle never ends. Nobody should die of dehydration in our hospitals. It is unacceptable.

Yes that is very true, and sickening and shameful. We are a bit crap about frail old people. Very crap.

YANBU - got a bit {angry} watching Country File last night when John Craven was interviewing a farmer worried about his crop of barley not growing properly due to the "drought"! Drought??? Try having a look at the news about what's happening in Africa at the moment mate.

Chen - I totally agree. Yes we have to sort out how old people are looked after in the NHS - I think it is appalling how poor some care is.

But I have relatives in the US and I know about the realities of medical care there and how much insurers insert clauses preventing people from claiming when they really need to. My Aunt had her foot amputated as a direct result of the poor medical care she received in the US, and that was a result of a lack of money.

'I do know the NHS is looked at by a lot of other people around the world with a fair bit of envy.'

As LFN has often said, then why don't other countries like France and Germany copy it. France is often top in the world for healthcare, and some of our people are even sent there to have operations done more quickly. Be wary of politicians claiming "best in the world", they are like the Emperor that had no clothes.

I wouldn't say it's the best for GP care tbh. No experience of trauma care.

Yanbu -- I am privilged to be born into this country. I do my best for it and it looks after me well.

xx

People are allowed to have a bad day. People are allowed to moan about the cost of rent, food, fuel etc.. if they wish.

There is nothing wrong with venting, and lots of people come on here to do just that!

Very few people are stupid enough to even think they have it anywhere near as bad as someone in absolute poverty or in a war-torn country, but it doesn't mean they can't have a shit day and moan about their lot.

So YABU.

And stop calling schools and hospitals free, they're not.

Is this the best in the world?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1270160/Betrayed-NHS-Doctor-gave-life-health-service-refused-vital-cancer-drugs-save-her.html

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1211950/Premature-baby-left-die-doctors-mother-gives-birth-just-days-22-week-care-limit.html

There are many shocking stories and very few people seem to be held to account.

We need to keep complaining, keep whinging, keep demanding that things improve.

'A midwife said he was breathing and had a strong heartbeat, and described him as a "little fighter".

I kept asking for the doctors but the midwife said, "They won't come and help, sweetie. Make the best of the time you have with him".'
She cuddled her child and took precious photos of him, but he died in her arms less than two hours after his birth.'

How come this isn't frontpage news instead of all the celebrity stories? Was it on the BBC news? Maybe they didn't want a lot of whingers to start asking questions.

I am affected by the heartfelt nature of your anger, Claig.

We're all one society, we're all in it together. It is easy to be fooled and tricked by the powerful who use divide and rule and tell us how lucky we are compared to the poor of the third world. We need to demand the best for all the people of our country, and not believe the spin and lies.

I hope some people on this thread have seen another side to you

I am as I have always been, just another typical Daily Mail reader.

no sorry you've thrown off your devil's cape and -puff - like magic there's a little fluffy bunny underneath

well a sort of angry fluffy bunny with a sword of truth and shield of justice and paws of grrr and all that

claig, those are both examples of the areas we recognise as needing to be inproved. The baby left to die is particularly tragic and I definitely think that policy needs to be reviewed. Sadly, many people will not agree with that though because it would also call into question the 24 week abortion limit which so many people think is acceptable or should actually be set higher

There's a difference between complacency and appreciation.

It is possible to appreciate the positives of our society and still work to change and improve the negatives.

I am very grateful for my life but I am also aware that I am extremely lucky. Not everyone is.

Reading that article about doctors refusing to help is very distressing. bubbleymummy, I think you are right, there may be other ploitical reasons to do with the 24 week abortion limit involved here.

Here is the account of one of the readers. All of these policies should be open for public debate. Many of the public are not aware of what is done in our name.

'i also went through something very similar in april this year, i had identical twin boys (isaac and clooney) at 21weeks and 6days, i went into labour at home and gave birth on the bathroom floor with only my friend and my dad to deliver them, the hospital told me i wasn't in labour on the phone and both times i called to tell them i needed to go to hospital the lady on the phone was very rude and made it clear i was not to go to the hospital, my dad and friend both managed to keep them alive till the ambulance came and both paramedics in the ambulance told me they wer little fighters and they were holding on but when i got to the hospital they stood the doctors stood there with there arms folded and refused to help them, what i dont understand is how people such as my dad with no medical qualifications could keep both babies alive yet a hospital with numerous machines and qualified peadiatritions and doctors and thousands of pounds worth of machines couldn't!!'

But isn't the reason that the premature baby wasn't resucitated because if he'd survived, he'd be brain damaged? It doesn't necessarily come down to money imo.

'The guidelines were drawn up by the Nuffield Council on Bioethics after a two-year inquiry which took evidence from doctors, nurses and religious leaders.
But weeks before they were published in 2006, a child was born in the U.S. which proved a baby could survive at earlier than 22 weeks if it was given medical treatment.
Amillia Taylor was born in Florida on October 24, 2006, after just 21 weeks and six days in the womb. She celebrated her second birthday last year.
Doctors believed she was a week older and so gave her intensive care, but later admitted she would not have received treatment if they had known her true age.
Her birth also coincided with the debate in Britain over whether the abortion limit should be reduced.

Some argued that if a baby could survive at 22 weeks then the time limit on abortions should be reduced.'