to think we in the UK have a bloody good life and we should stop bloody whinging?

[WriterofDreams]

This is a rant. Feel free to tell me IABU, as I am not going to be moderate in my views.

I know "what about the starving children in [insert poor country here]" is an endlessly annoying response to any complaint but it's been ringing in my head of late. I know people are struggling financially and being uncertain about the future is very worrying. But I do feel at times it would do us all good to stop and appreciate the huge privilege and good luck we have in living in this part of the world.

Something that will always stay with me is something my sister told me when she was working in Namibia. She had a spare notebook and pen so she gave it to a man who was about to study to be a teacher. He broke down in tears and she got a shock until she realised that this man could never have afforded to buy his own notebook and pen. He considered the gift hugely generous and had to be persuaded to accept it. A nun friend of mine also told me about children in Ethiopia who used to have their pens blessed by the priest in the hopes it would make them keep working. They had one pen to last the whole year and if it stopped working they might not be able to do their exams. Contrast this to my kids at school who would lose expensive handwriting pens left right and centre and expect a new one every time. We had to introduce a reward system to get them to look after them.

I wake up every day in a peaceful country in a dry warm house. I have running water, electricity, gas and a council that looks after the roads and collects the bins (as well as a lot of other things). If I need anything there are any number of shops I can go to where the shelves are constantly well stocked. My son will go to a clean well equipped school with highly trained teachers, for free, and get heaps of bloody handwriting pens, books, and photocopied worksheets. If I'm ill I can go to the doctor, for free, and be seen right away, given the correct medicine or sent to a state of the art hospital where I'll get great care, again for free. I don't have to worry that malaria or yellow fever will kill my family, or that war will tear my country apart.

On the whole I am one of the very very lucky ones.

Op, YANBU, but a lot of it is relative really.

I am grateful to have the NHS etc, though I do wish that I could afford a plumber to replace my loft tank ball cock though because I just don't have enough water for a days use at a time; I have to not use (almost) any at all for 3 or 4 days in order that the Dc's can have a shallow bath (Dd first, then warmed up with a few inches for Ds). My electric shower broke about a year ago and although I bought a cheap replacement, I can't afford to have it fitted. I have no kitchen or hall lights, but can't afford to get my house rewired (wiring is now nearly 60 years old), I fear a house fire due to the electrics.
I do have internet, phone and cable tv. I do have a car, but not having any of those will not give me enough money to do the essential work on my house, sadly.

"Is this the best in the world?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1270160/Betrayed-NHS-Doctor-gave-life-health-service-refused-vital-cancer-drugs-save-her.html

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1211950/Premature-baby-left-die-doctors-mother-gives-birth-just-days-22-week-care-limit.html

There are many shocking stories and very few people seem to be held to account.

We need to keep complaining, keep whinging, keep demanding that things improve."

ho hum

I'm not sure who you're directing all these 'best in the world' quotes at tbh

I haven't said it (in fact I said quite the opposite) I was merely stating the fact that there is some middle ground between who ever it was who described the NHS as the best in the world and the Daily Mail's bullshit worldview that the NHS is some 100% incompetent shaming third world stalinist drain on the UK taxpayer.

"As LFN has often said, then why don't other countries like France and Germany copy it. France is often top in the world for healthcare, and some of our people are even sent there to have operations done more quickly."

The French system often comes top in the world for health care; it also spends around 25% more as a % of GDP on health care than the UK does. I'm sure your fellow Daily Mail readers would be overjoyed at increasing the NHS budget by that amount. I'm sure they'd love French levels of taxation too.

Yes, I know the baby in Florida survived, but it doesn't say whether she has ongoing problems. I would be extremely surprised if she is 100% healthy.

Chen23, I mention the 'best in the world' because that is what our politicians keep telling us, it's not about you.

Here is a quote from a Times article on the health service
'It may be a myth that our health service is the best in the world, but it?s our myth.'

I can't find quotes of politicians saying it at the moment, but it is what we are constantly told.

And we are not just "best in the world" where the health service is concerned. Apparently it is also the film industry and teh armed services and many other things.
www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/film/oscars/4786266/Oscar-winners-Gordon-Brown-pays-tribute-to-best-in-the-world-British-winners.html

'I'm sure your fellow Daily Mail readers would be overjoyed at increasing the NHS budget by that amount. I'm sure they'd love French levels of taxation too.'

You obviously don't understand Daily Mail readers. They are all in favour of more of their taxation being spent on teh health service, which is why the Daily Mail always highlights the things going on over care for the elderly and in the health service. They would rather their tax money was spent for the benefit of the people's health than for reducing the 'carbon footprint' and a myriad of other politically correct projects that they don't believe in.

Daily Mail readers care above all for their families and their health. They don't care for grandiose grand standing politicians who claim we are the "best in the world".

Daily Mail readers want their tax money toi be spent on the people's health service, not on an increase in the foreign aid budget. They want doctors to keep babies like that one in the article alive. They want an excellent health service and they want that to be a priority for the people, they don't want their tax money spent on Millenium Domes and other politically correct projects that help aggrandise their political representatives. They wanted the people in Hull and Cockermouth to be adequately funded after the floods. They weren't happy that people were still living in caravans in their gardens a year after the floods.

glad you can confim what I thought, which is that you can speak for all Daily Mail readers as they are a borg like collective hive mind spoon fed their daily outrage and disinformation.

Irrespective of quotes you can't come up with it sounds like you're having a straw man argument with yourself on a forum which (AFAICS) has a far more realistic range of viewpoints regarding the NHS.

I would rank our film industry and armed forces as amongst the very best in the world btw; the UK excels in a number of fields, altho the level of self hate and bitterness residing in a lot of people (and your favourite paper) would lead you to think otherwise.

Anyone claiming anything to be "the very best in the world" is talking in soundbites imo, feel free to argue with that person all day long (who ever it is)

'I would rank our film industry and armed forces as amongst the very best in the world'

What better than the Americans? Don't you listen to the news? Didn't you hear what the US forces really thought?

I am not arguing with you about "best in the world", because you seem to agree that we are not. I am mentioning that politicians like Gordon Brown keep telling us that. I don't understand why you are so defensive about those nonsensical claims.

'altho the level of self hate and bitterness residing in a lot of people (and your favourite paper)'

There's no self hate in the Daily Mail and among their readers. But they are not too keen on the spin and lies of progressives.

Daily Mail readers don't believe we are the "best in the world" and that Gordon Brown would deliver an end to "boom and bust". They know the truth, they don't believe the spin and lies.

"What better than the Americans? Don't you listen to the news? Didn't you hear what the US forces really thought? "

Enlighten me (a story from the Mail perhaps?).

"I am not arguing with you about "best in the world", because you seem to agree that we are not. I am mentioning that politicians like Gordon Brown keep telling us that. I don't understand why you are so defensive about those nonsensical claims."

OK

Argue with something Gordon Brown said at some point all day if that's what floats your boat.

'They weren't happy that people were still living in caravans in their gardens a year after the floods.'

Yeah they are as long as you still buy into their publication.

It is right and proper that we moan and get scared about the direction our country is going But we can afford to turn the country around (both in terms of industry, education, our very entitled attitudes etc) and fully recognised that compared to many other countries we have it bloody good. And I'm certainly not a person who thinks we need to pay some sort of penance to countries we previously colonised.

I think of UK in terms of a global society and to that end we should help as far as we can. How we help is open to debate, of course.

"Daily Mail readers don't believe we are the "best in the world" and that Gordon Brown would deliver an end to "boom and bust". They know the truth, they don't believe the spin and lies."

Oh yes.

The Daily Mail is the defender of the Truth and the last bulwark against the lies and deceit of the main stream media.

Satire died today, and you killed it. Hope you;re feel happy with yourself.

Didn't you hear what US forces said when they had to take over Basra? Haven't you heard their generals explaining what went wrong?
I'll let you google for that. You'll be in for a big surprise.

My argument is that Gordon Brown and other politicians are kidding us when they say things like we have the best health service in the world and that it is the envy of the world. I know that comes as a great disappointment to you, since he had you believing it. But look behind the spin and start to become aware. Google about the US forces and the scales will start to drop from your eyes and you will see that you have been had.

'The Daily Mail is the defender of the Truth and the last bulwark against the lies and deceit of the main stream media.'

Now you're starting to get it. The spin meisters hold on you is beginning to wane.

YANBU. My baby just had her BCG and its really important to me that she is innoculated against TB. I grew in Africa and knew people who died of TB, and babies who died of Diarrhea :(

'My argument is that Gordon Brown and other politicians are kidding us when they say things like we have the best health service in the world '

No many people buy it. But daily mail readers but too much into what they they are told.

Skater - agree. My mum was raised in Africa years back and what she witnessed was awful. My father more recently was based in another African country for about 5 years - again - he was fine - the locals weren't. His daughter got malaria and she was straight into a US hospital and fine. Their neighbours never got that treatment.

That's why although I'll continue to voice my distaste at how UK is doing and how I think it could do better I truly know that we have the basics, we have the infrastructure and we're lucky to have that.

I'm still no clearer on your proof that the UK military are not amongst the best in the world; your vague mumbling about some unspecified statements made by US generals doesn't help me with that, sorry.

If you think the US military have the last word on miltary incompetence of their coalition partners then we disagree.

Oh and as for your google recommendation, googling US forces gives you 67,400,000 results, you may need to be a little more specific.

"My argument is that Gordon Brown and other politicians are kidding us when they say things like we have the best health service in the world and that it is the envy of the world. I know that comes as a great disappointment to you, since he had you believing it."

Oh dear.

I'm not sure how I can make it any clearer that I don't think anything of the kind; I've repeatedly asserted that's not the case and I thought that had got through to you as you conceded that point less than 10 minutes ago. Looks like goldfish have better recall abilities than you do.

I participate on an ex-pat forum...the amount of returnees to the UK is staggering.

I am in the US till next year,it has many wonderful points...but the UK is (for many of the healthcare points made) a much better and safer bet.

All developed country inhabitants should count their blessings.

I am sad to hear however,abut posters that are having personal difficulties accessing treatment for their families...

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1560713/British-forces-useless-in-Basra-say-officials.html

You're kidding yourself about US forces. They have taken the greatest casualties and they have been placed in the most dangerous areas.

I'm just amused by your defense of Gordon's claims. Maybe you're one of these progressive politicians or progressive journalists. Otherwise since we are in agreement that we are not "the best in teh world", what's the problem? It sounds like you agree with me and the Daily Mail and that is what is driving you nuts.

mumblechum, seeing as they don't resuscitate them I'm not sure how they would know. Obviously some children have survived. I personally think they deserve a chance. I know others disagree.

bubbleymummy, I get the impression you might be a doctor. That is great, because I seem to remember I agree with you on vaccines and agree that these children should be given a chance. I am glad that we have doctors like you that challenge the official position.

Off out for a lunch in the sunshine with alcohol. Back later.

You're kidding yourself about US forces.

I have no idea what on earth you're talking about (I'm no entirely sure you do either), I only said that I don't think some comments made by unspecified US generals gives the true picture of the quality of the UK military.

"I'm just amused by your defense of Gordon's claims"

that's actually pretty pathetic strawman rubbish, I've done nothing of the kind as you yourself acknowledged a few posts back. Feel free to keep banging on about a quote about the British film industry made by Gordon Brown 2 and a half years ago if you want.

"It sounds like you agree with me and the Daily Mail and that is what is driving you nuts."

I don't think you're playing with a full deck tbh.

Pretty sure it's very clear that I think The Daily Mail is a disingenuous comic book intended to give it's readers their required daily amount of bile, outrage and spleen venting through misinformation and partisan nonsense.

'Pretty sure it's very clear that I think The Daily Mail is a disingenuous comic book intended to give it's readers their required daily amount of bile, outrage and spleen venting through misinformation and partisan nonsense.'

and that's why you are so worked up when they are right. I'm disappointed, I thought you were better informed about US troops etc. considering you don't like to read comics.

Enjoy your lunch.

"and that's why you are so worked up when they are right."

what are they right about exactly?

I'm still unclear to the point you're making, other than you're angry that Gordon Brown once said that British films are the best in the world and that the Daily Mail is right about everything.

Are we talking about the same rag that shamefully tried a couple of days ago to exploit a young girls death for a disgusting cheap headline and a dig at teachers?

The same paper that discussed the genetics behind homosexuality with the head line "Abortion hope after 'gay genes' finding"?

That paper?