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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to charge my brother rent?

68 replies

JobCarHouseNoBaby · 01/07/2011 21:48

Ok I am prepared for all opinions....be honest but not too blunt, please!

So here's the background: DP & I bought our house last summer. Have lived together for 5yrs. I am marriage & baby-obsessed (see other posts), but timing is not right. We both work lots (out 7am-7pm) and are barely at home.

Current situation: Little brother of mine has just finished uni in Essex (we live in Hampshire) and has failed. Not even passed with a third. Parents are going nuts having funded his 4yr degree and let him live with them rent free for the duration. He is at a loss and doesn't know what to do. I suggested he find a job, ANY job, and quick, so he doesn't have to sit at home with no cash and be patronised by my recently-redundant mother.

He has been offered a job interview in a town 10 miles from my house (i.e. he would have to stay with me - he couldn't commute from Essex). I don't mind him staying, neither does DP, but have found out that under the Government's 'rent a room' scheme we can charge lodgers up to £340 a month with no tax liabilities.

I feel a bit cheeky charging this much as I know his contribution to the bills will only come to about £200. But at the same time I think he needs to learn some real world lessons (having lived rent free his entire life).

What would you charge a family member? If anything at all - AIBU to think of charging him rent or 'housekeeping'?

OP posts:

Sarahplane · 01/07/2011 23:51

He should definitely be contributing, he's a grown adult with a job so why should he be living rent free. Also if you don't charge him rent he'll get a hell of a shock when he does move out. Also if you charge him too little he'll never move out.

LRDTheFeministNutcase · 01/07/2011 23:53

I think 250 sounds a good amount - 350 is an awful lot for a rented room in a shared house, I know people paying less than that in London.

ilovesooty · 02/07/2011 00:08

YANBU, and it doesn't sound like your parents did him any favours not charging him rent

I agree. £1200 a month? I'd charge him a third of that, as long as that isn't more than the going rate, and make him pull his weight in the house too. His debts are his own business: he's too old for other people to take responsibility for him.

ilovesooty · 02/07/2011 00:10

I see you can only charge £340. I'd charge that and make him contribute to food and other household expenses then.

itisnearlysummer · 02/07/2011 07:48

I think you should charge him rent/housekeeping.

If he hadn't been handed everything on a plate during his degree he might have taken it a bit more seriously and not failed it so spectacularly!

It's about time he started behaving like a grown up and not a little boy.

Original poster

JobCarHouseNoBaby · 02/07/2011 08:43

Thanks again for the useful replies. I really like the idea of putting some of his rent away in a savings account to give to him when he wants a place of his own. Will have to be disciplined to put it away - to suddenly have an extra few hundred quid income a month will be lovely!

I think I'm slightly hesitant about my mums potential reaction to this situation. She has always maintained that there will always be a rent-free room for me and my brother in her house. She doesn't agree with charging her kids to live with her. But then again, I am his sister, I am not responsible for his upbringing etc? Also, my aunt recently found herself in a similar situation with her son, my cousin, and charged him £55/wk rent to live in her house whilst he worked. My mum still makes a catbum face to this.

I have started a little list of 'ground rules' which I propose letting him have in advance, along with a rent figure, so he can decide for himself whether he wants to stay with us.

Pay rent via standing order on X day of the month (day after his pay day)
List of things rent covers... anything else is extra
He pays for any damage or repair to the house or contents
Ask us first before inviting guests to visit
Do your own laundry and ironing
Cook your own meals or help us cook meals together in the week
Dont take out any credit on our address
This arrangement is temporary only and for a max of 6 months after which we both need to think about whether we want to continue

OP posts:

ZillionChocolate · 02/07/2011 08:56

All sounds like a good plan, although I'm not sure that 4 is particularly fair. If he's paying you rent, it's his home too, so he should be able to have people over. I think it would be fairer to say he should give you notice if he intends to use the living room/kitchen to entertain. Maybe you should do the same, that is, let him know in advance if he wants to avoid your guests.

FetchezLaVache · 02/07/2011 09:11

You sound like a lovely big sister! I really hope you don't get bitten on the bum by this. I hate to be horrible, but your brother sounds like a bit of a waster to me. Living at home rent-free, running up masses of credit card debt (I'm also concerned about the potential of Number 7 on your list), managing to fail his degree.

I definitely think you should be charging him some rent. You and your DP have worked hard and made sacrifices to be able to afford a property, where's the objection to his chipping in? I think £250 is a good compromise, so it's totally affordable for him, but at the same time, you're not out of pocket due to having him there.

Your list of rules is very good, but please make sure he realises they're not optional and agree to them before he sets foot over the threshold!

FlangelinaBallerina · 02/07/2011 10:01

So you're basically talking about an arrangement where he pays more than he costs you but less than the going rate. Sounds like a mutually beneficial set up. All of you do well out of it. Ok, you'd be profiting. But he'd also be making money out of you, in that he'd be paying less than he otherwise would have to. Adult family members all save money by living together, so split the wealth. If he's skint, just don't charge him for the first month. If you're already very well off and feel mean, just charge him a few quid less for the sake of your conscience. That would be a very advantageous arrangement for him, and it would probably do him good to learn more about managing his finances.

LRDTheFeministNutcase · 02/07/2011 10:26

I think it's good - how do you think he'll take it?

(I suspect the offer will look a whole lot more attractive when he's been looking for a place for a bit and realizes what it's like!)

zipzap · 02/07/2011 10:26

Remember you Might have extra costs if he stays such as paying more on the insurance.

Is it worth asking your db if he wants to give you the £340 but that you will pay £90 of it into a savings account for him so he can be saving up easily? It's always much easier to save if money goes out and you never get to see it iykwim.

I'd also be tempted to try to have a condition of his staying with you that he also has to pay at least £300 or maybe 50% of his income after rent/travel/other 'proper' expenses have been paid so he is getting his debts paid off - even if you have to use the excuse that him having debts and living at your place will affect your credit score potentially (no idea if this is the case but they seem to be able to take some incredibly minor things into account so it's not within the bounds of reason that it could be true). I'd also make him sit in front of the moneysavingexpert website and work out a budget, and generally get into the moneysaving mode. He might have to buy some work clothes or a lunchbox or briefcase or whatever when he starts working but he can still look for good deals on them. And then not go off and buy a load of general clothes the next month, etc etc.

buzzsore · 02/07/2011 10:34

You also need to add in something about some cleaning/tidying up to your list. Like he should clean the bathroom once a fortnight, plus run the hoover round communal areas once a week and keep his room clean. You don't want to end up picking up after him and resenting it.

I do think he should be able to have guests without asking permission, give you a heads up, yes, but should be able to bring people back if he wants.

LRDTheFeministNutcase · 02/07/2011 10:36

In all honesty, I would be really offended by my big sister saying 'and I'll pay 90 quid into a savings account for you' ... isn't that very patronizing? And you're trying to get him to take a bit more responsibility, so seems like the wrong message.

He's messed up, obviously, but you're not there to sit in judgment of him, imo.

PigletJohn · 02/07/2011 11:18

make it slightly dearer than it would cost him to room-share. Otherwise he will have an incentive to want to stay for ever. You can give him a discount up to his first payday if you want. Make sure he understands that if he becomes unemployed he still has to pay.

Verify that his standing order is being paid from the same account that his salary goes into, and verify that it does not already have a huge overdraft on it.

If he has been used to sponging off living with his parents he may have some residual expectations about the sock fairy, the cleaning fairy, the washing-up fairy and the laundry fairy. Make sure he knows they are not real. Check that he knows how to work a sink, a awashing machine, and a clothes line.

I have a sister who is a sponging parasite lived with our mum rent free after splitting up, and had a sense of entitlement. It is unhealthy to let that develop.

ilovesooty · 02/07/2011 12:53

I'd charge the full £340: operate those rules (or some of the amendments others have suggested) and leave him to sort his own finances thereafter. I think it's none of your mum's business what you charge him. I wouldn't save for him either: most of his difficulties are down to having been babied and looked after.

jade80 · 02/07/2011 13:04

After a job paying 1200 a month and he hasn't even scraped a third?! No wonder the teachers are pissed off- they start on around that and have to have a GOOD degree!

I would charge him the £340 and then extra for bills. Then maybe keep £200 a month and pay the rest into savings for him for when he moves out. I would also outline exactly what jobs he needs to do e.g. cooking and cleaning, then charge extra if he doesn't bother to help with them.

Sounds like he's had a free ride for too long!

If your mum makes a catsbummouth face at you, do one of your own and point out to her that her approach hasn't exactly worked well for him so far, now has it?

LRDTheFeministNutcase · 02/07/2011 13:24

If he got a third, he was at university, didn't have 'teachers', and the people who taught him almost certainly didn't get 1200pcm.

Sorry, beside the point just confused by that post.

I think the problem with charging him loads is, why would he stay with you if he can get somewhere cheaper? I would worry your mum will want to subsidize him and if you make it financially really tough for him to stay with you, he'll just end up with her paying for him to live elsewhere?

Don't know your family dynamics of course, it just sounds as if your parents would love to give him an easy ride.

jade80 · 02/07/2011 13:32

I'm referring to teachers in general, as in the recent hoohaa re. pensions- sorry to confuse you! Just pointing out that I think the lad is being very hopeful to think he will land that job with not even a third to his name and a massive gap on his CV, when people with good degrees can't even get that.

LRDTheFeministNutcase · 02/07/2011 13:35

No, don't apologize, it's me!

I do see what you're saying - mind you I think I was quite naive when I finished university, some people take longer growing up than others (and, honestly, living rent-free can't have helped).

I thought it was the university people being angry and not letting him retake his exams ... need to read threads more carefully!

jade80 · 02/07/2011 13:39

Ah I see! Think it was a combo of you not reading it all and me not explaining very clearly! Glad you see what I mean! Yes I was prob the same when I left uni, but I guess at least I left with a degree, unlike OPs brother!

LRDTheFeministNutcase · 02/07/2011 13:42

True. But it must be a big shock to him/OP's parents.

FakePlasticTrees · 02/07/2011 13:54

I would definitely add a rule about taking it in turns to clean communal areas and if you cook separately, you clean up your own mess within half an hour of eating, if you cook together, whoever cooks, the others clean up.

I do think you should suggest he looks into resitting the exams without having to go back to uni (so keeping the job and just going back in for the exams). It might be good money after bad, but if he can at least scrap a pass it'll really improve his future career options.

Original poster

JobCarHouseNoBaby · 02/07/2011 19:01

Thanks everyone for your posts!

Turns out little bro has now not got the interview for the job he thought as the company have emailed to say he hasn't got the right experience.

So I'm off the hook for now, but he said he is going to keep looking for jobs in the area so he is not limited to those near my parents house.

Time will tell whether I have to put all this wonderful advice into action!

OP posts:

ohnelly · 02/07/2011 19:12

Yanbu at all. I stayed with my brother for just over a year after a relationship I was in broke up, and didn't mind at all paying towards rent etc. You could probably let him pay a bit less than the going rate though, as he is family. I think that is very fair

LRDTheFeministNutcase · 02/07/2011 19:15

Oh, I'm sorry for his sake he hasn't got it ... hope he manages to get something soon and it all works out.

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