to detest my BIL?

[cherryteat]

long story cut short: dsis1 got with bil approx 9 yrs ago. He was aggressive, jealous, insecure spiteful to dsis & dnephew who was a baby at the time. Out of love & concern I interfered, which backfired on me & I wasn't allowed to see DN for a very long time. Stupidity and drunkenness meant that I phoned them one nite & told them 'a few home truths'. at the time I felt I had nothing to lose as they'd already stopped me seeing DN who I looked after every weekend and doted on.

anyway... have to post this in sections due to phone issues.
We eventually called a truce with me constantly being made by bil to apologise & I have tried my hardest to stay neutral wrt their relationship & his attitudes & behaviour. They have since had a gorgeous child together DN2 who bil blatantly favours & it has hurt me seeing how he treats DN1 plus the way he speaks to dsis1.
When alone with DN1 he has said things to me like 'why does daddy say you're evil?' and 'daddy says you're a Biatch' etc

not Biatch, bitch, we are not completely ghetto.
So I have mentioned some things to dsis1 she knows what he's like but turns blind eye for quiet life.
Dsis2 is younger & spends a lot of time with dsis1 & bil, she often tells me what bil is saying about me which I find upsetting because I know how he feels about me but don't need to keep being told.

bil went through a stage of blanking me & only addressing my DH, he has now changed and is blanking DH for no reason at any family occasion.
We are hosting a family get together for DN1 birthday this w/e, dsis2 has just told me a host of nasty things bil has said about us & now I feel I can't have him in our home, around my family etc but obviously don't want to spoil DN1's day or upset dsis1. So really do we just ignore the monogamous? I take full blame for what happened 8 years ago but why should we still tread on eggshells around him?
Sorry for the chapters, hope this is readable.

Your sister has chosen to be with him and it is upto her how she allows herself and her DS to be treated. If you had serious concerns then, yes voice them and even call SS, if they were actually serious. It is you that is coming across as jealous. Why you thought that you had the right to make a drunken phonecall to another adult, only you can decide, you have to ask yourself why you cannot respect her decision.

Your sister didn't have to have your approval so perhaps you should just distance yourself from them as i think you are going to find fault because you have made up your mind to what is going on. Your younger sister needs to stop causing trouble, also.

Just to add, there are family members who i 'blank' because i cannot be bothered with the pettyness, which seems to be happening in your case.

oh gosh not ignore the monogamous , the ignoramus! Must try harder to use desktop computer & not lazy phone.

oh I know I made a massive mistake with the things I said 7/8 years ago and actually stopped drinking as a direct consequence. I panicked and lashed out & since then I have tried to be diplomatic and turn a blind eye to things. Somebody did call SS back then, it wasn't me but i've always been blamed for it.
the reason I have not stopped seeing them altogether is because I love my DNs, & my dsis1.

i think you need to tell your sister to stop telling you what she over hears because it is only spreading the bile. if she hadnt told you all this days before, would you have suddenly had this crisis. you know how he feels about you and how you feel about him,for the record he sounds like a total wanker, but you dont really need to hear about it any more do you. not if you want to rty and rub along for the sake of your ds and dn's. i would ignore him unless i really had to and be totally fabulous in every other way to ds and dn's and tell other ds not to be shit stirring as i am not interested in the feted horse shit that comes out of that mans mouth any more.

dsis1 is determined that we all act as normal family together which makes for some very tense occasions! Dsis2 is of the belief that it's best to be honest and constantly upsets with her criticisms and straight talking, I do tell her but she always says I misunderstood what she's said, usually derogatory comments about my marriage or my weight/appearance.
I have mobility issues plus pregs & have a toddler so don't get out much, it tends to be them coming to me, so dsis1 always drags bil along & he makes it very clear with his attitudes that he doesn't want to be around us!

why on earth does you dsis drag you bil along if he doesnt want to?

IMHO Birds has been a bit harsh on you.

Sounds to me like you were worried, and in a drunken fit did something which you regret and have done your best to apologise and try to make it up to them.

This guy sounds incredibly nasty and I find to still be holding a grudge 8 years later pretty shocking. However to involve your DN to the point where he parrots off these words about you is absolutely disgusting. NO matter what went on between you he should not be discussing it with you DN and using him in this way not matter what has happened.

I also think that your BIL is an adult and really needs to deal with this better. Either he cuts you off, forgives you and allows you to make ammends, or forgives you because it is the best thing for his wife and Nephew. However instead he has decided to be very passive aggresive on the whole, and undermining etc behind your back.

I mean if he hates you that much, how come you are hosting this party for DN. Let me guess..... he gets something out it? Is your place bigger by any chance? Or does he just hate the clearing up?

I think the best thing to do would be to avoid this man like the plague. Maybe talk to your sis and figure out a way that you can have a relationship with her and your DN's without really seeing him. Avoid him at family occassions and ask your DH to do the same. Don't allow this man to add any fuel to the fire.

With respect to his relationship with your dsis - you are going to have to try to let her make her decisions and support her. with the best will in the world you are only going to make it worse if you keep pushing her to realise how toxic he is - she needs to figure that one out on her own. let her come to you when she is ready.

birdsgottafly:
I promise you I am not jealous in any way. I watched my sister's transformation whilst with this man from being a confident girl to becoming constantly ground down, worrying all the time about his moods & jealousy. her friends were all worried about her, plus it was hard to see the effect he was having on my DN. I was scared for her & DN. I was heartbroken after being banned from seeing DN & retaliated inappropriately.

thanks spooks & giant.
I promise I have said nothing negative to dsis1 about bil since it all kicked off years ago as I was petrified of losing contact again.
There was one occasion 2 years ago where she phoned me to share her good news that they became engaged & in the background he said 'fucking bitch' aimed at me whilst I was pretending to be overjoyed at her news! Even then I didn't criticize him, I just made it clear I'd heard him and when I next met my sis I told her I was worried about becoming estranged again.

my DH is more civilized than me and less emotionally labile. He thinks we should go along with it for now & as spooks says continue to be lovely to everyone.
You are right that if dsis2 hadn't said anything I would not be so upset about sunday.
The reasons behind my sis bringing him are complex, all to do with our bizarre upbringing and fighting to project an image of happiness & security.

I must add though that he has one friend from work and nobody else significant in his life other than his parents, my dsis & my nephews. He is socially inept & many, many people have commented on this over the years and nobody but nobody can understand why my gorgeous beautiful sister is with him.
The reasons the do is at mine are based on space, convenience (mainly mine) and the fact that our estranged mother doesn't know where I live therefore is unlikely to come and cast a blight on yet another family ocasion!

Cherryteat, hi.

The BiL may well be a tosser but I guess he's your sister's tosser and the best thing I think you can do is let her make her life, but be there for her if she needs you.

I think it is quite toxic of your other sister to pass on all the nasty comments that have been made about you. Tell her that it has to stop, that you do not want to hear it. It will make a difference.

Oh and by the way, my mother was always badmouthing relatives including a very nice aunt of mine. It didn't affect how I felt about them; but I got heartily sick of my mother's antics.

my other issue (of which there are myriad) is that DH & I have no other family nearby, therefore my dsises are our main babysitters. We rarely use them but I don't want my children exposed to his nastiness and I balk at the thought of him telling my DCs that their mother is evil etc.
this makes it difficult for me to feel comfortable with dsis ever having them. Because she has 2 DCs of her own it's easier for her to have my DD at her house and as Dsis2 is always with dsis1 its likely that DD comes into contact with BIL anyway.

He sounds hideous and fwiw I don't blame you at all for the drunken phone call, not constructive or ideal but hey...
In you situation I would just try and distance myself from them, but as someone else said, any serious concerns about the children -ss.
I would find it very hard to maintain a relationship with my sister in this circumstance. In fact I wouldn't want to, she allows this knob to treat her son badly and turns a blind eye because it suits her. She allowed him to dictate whether you were allowed to see your dn or not.
I'm afraid I have very very little sympathy with someone who facilitates the mistreatment of their children, I'm sure others would say she has been worn down by him but I don't really believe in the poor helpless little woman schtick.
Anyway, that makes it sound like I think your sister is worse than him, I don't but my feelings about maintaing a relationship would come down to my feelings about her, not him.

hi linerunner
I am heartily sick of family antics too! I hate that DH & DD are exposed to this shit. DH's family are pretty reserved & I'm sure he thinks he's inadvertently woken up in Jeremy Kyle territory.
My Dsis2 is very hard work, she lives minutes away from our house but I make very little effort to see her as she often leaves me feeling crap about myself. She is hurt that I don't see her or invite her round often and as always suggests I misheard her or 'took it the wrong way'.
After I reared up about BIL coming to our house she tried to hastily backtrack , worried that I'll quote her but I don't want to get dragged into it too much with all my family & work responsibilities .
This has driven a wedge between me and dsis1 and although we do still get on and stay in contact, her and Dsis2 and BIL all come as a package nowadays & it's more than I can cope with at times.

jeremyvile! Very apt! I completely agree about dsis1 facilitating his nasty behaviour & there is not a day goes by where I don't berate myself for also enabling this by keeping schtum about things I feel strongly about. I keep my mouth shut because I thought that by always being in DN's life & by offering a 'haven' to him he would feel safe in coming to us when he needs help or security. but as he's got older and i've become less physically mobile he doesn't spend much time with us anymore, he has his friends and we live the other side of town so I feel that we don't have the strong bond we once did.

Maybe he won't let her out on her own. He sounds seriously nasty. I would call SS. You've been blamed for it already when you haven't done it, so you might as well do it anyway.

Suspect there's some serious abuse going on in there.

If he says anything inappropriate to your children you are certainly entitled to repeat it very loudly so everyone hears, and then ask him to explain himself.

Keeping up appearances facilitates people like him. It's a crap way of life. Have you given your sister the number for Women's Aid?

I think, as others have said, that you need to go along with things for now and try to keep the relationship with your DSIS and the kids. BIL clearly feels threatened by you because you can see him for what he is, you are doing well not to rise to his bait, be the better person, your DSIS is really going to need you one day.
If your DN asks why BIL says things about you could you give him an age appropriate version of the truth? Stressing that you apologised to BIL for the things that you said but that he is still angry and not willing to forgive you.

I think you are a lovely person to put up with all this nastiness to support your family, don't allow anyone to pass on any more of his vitriol to you, tell them you don't want to know what he says about you because it doesn't matter, you are there for your DSIS and DNs.

previously he didn't let her out alone, even a trip to the local shop resulted in frantic calls asking where she was & what was taking so long. Nowadays she has become stronger in some ways and goes on nights out on a regular basis, mainly with Dsis2 and he does complain but doesn't go out himself. the sisters returned home from a night out to find him passed out at the table with porn on the laptop. Dsis2 reports that he mainly stays in & watches porn when dsis1 is out. This is not the kind of thing dsis1 would tell me due to the upkeep of appearances!
I was in a violent relationship prior to meeting DH, dsis1 was amazingly kind and supportive, helping me to recover at the other end. I think she believes that bil is nowhere near as bad as men who batter their wives and children & would never see any need for WA,,,, despite the fact that he is spiteful, manipulative and downright cruel at times.

Personally I think you should be distancing yourself from the lot of them, your own children shouldn't be growing up around this and I certainly wouldn't use any of them as babysitters Unless you want the next generation growing up the way you did you need to put some distance between you and just quietly wait for your dsis to wake up.
Have you got many friends to support you instead of having to rely on your family in this way?

the bit thats the worst is that he's involving his son in this tit for tat to a damaging level,
e.g. calling you a bitch not on at all