aibu to think that all those striking on thursday are being selfish and greedy?

[hellospoon]

And they should be thankful that they even have a job?

In a day where thousands of people are unemployed and living in poor conditions surely these teachers should be thankful they even have a job!

Many parents are having to take leave, some unpaid I presume the effect that it will have on family's is ridiculous.

Ishani - I thought someone might say that, and of course I'm not happy whenever there is a strike, whether it be airport ones (every August there is one at Heathrow!), London Underground (about 3 times a year), firemen, etc.
However......it does beg the question of why so many teachers' unions are now striking (including one very moderate one that has never advocated strike action in its history- ever). Just to muddy the waters, other public sector workers are striking who aren't teachers - it's a bit of a murky situation.
My own feeling is actually surprise that teachers haven't considered strike action about 6-8 years ago when the government/Dept of Education kept meddling with their job, setting bizarre targets and the National Curriculum, etc etc.....I have friends who are teachers (no, I didn't ask how many of them are striking but I know several are definitely at work today).
People don't usually strike because they pension is 50,000 pounds as opposed to 55,000 pounds - I mean it's not down to an absolute figure, but because their working conditions have been made unbearable. I know, I work in the public sector and there have been times that the situation is unbearable but my career is now at a different point from that of the teachers and some junior colleagues so I am lucky with regards to timing.
In many countries worldwide, where public sector workers have to work in unreasonable conditions (whether it's low pay, meagre or no pension, long hours, little job security, or all of the above), while others in the country prosper, corruption has often been the end result. We are quite lucky that in the UK we are not there....yet.

But what do you really think striking will achieve? Really? Do you honestly think that you will get what you want by striking?

I trully hope you get what you want (so long as it isn't to the detriment of everybody else) but I don't think it is going to happen. Striking rarely solves anything - there will have to be a compromise but the longer you strike the more of a compromise you will have to make because your employers will have the upper hand and you will have lost the support of the public. You will have nowhere left to go, nothing left to threaten.

I take it you all remember the miners strike and how that ended?

Niecie, I didn't say that doctors, nurses etc, who also do vital jobs don't deserve preferential treatment, did I? I'm making the case for teachers because this is a teacher-bashing thread.

Of course they deserve decent pensions too. Nurses seem to have a particularly shit deal in terms of pay and working conditions which is outrageous given the job they do.

"Do you honestly think that you will get what you want by striking? "

We might just get something that is slightly less shit than what they're currently suggesting.

If we don't take action, we definitely won't.

PS. ie I think it is precisely because teaching on the whole is a caring profession and that teachers generally have a caring approach that they have not gone on strike earlier. But you can only squeeze or put pressure on decent individuals for so long; after that the situation becomes unhealthy. What I'd like to see is a chance for teachers to set out the issues (from pensions to other concerns) and their suggestions for solutions instead of the public being fed different sorts of propaganda from Gove, the Dof E, union leaders, members of private/alternative education groups, etc etc. In a sense, public support is probably irrelevant because the government will do what it wants to do, even if 90% of the public is opposed to it. (Remember what happened with the decision to go to war with Iraq?)

(This last paragraph doesn't apply to other public sector workers who aren't teachers, as I don't really know their jobs well enough to comment.)

YABU.

Actually, I do agree about one thing. I am pleased to have a job. That doesn't mean I, or any other worker, has to accept whatever shoddy treatment an employer chooses to dish out.

Employers tend not to give their workers decent T&C from the goodness of their hearts, funnily enough. It's usually because they have been negotiated and fought for.

Pang, Coal miners and power supply (electricity & gas) are now in the private sector thanks to Mrs T.

Soverylucky
We have tried with the homework over the years. We have had 6 DC go through the same schools so some off the older staffrun when they see usknow us quite well.
The younger teachers are good with setting homework and marking. It's some(but not all) of the older ones who insist that it can all be done in class.

I have never been able to cross out.

"In a sense, public support is probably irrelevant because the government will do what it wants to do, even if 90% of the public is opposed to it."

Yes, unfortunately this is true.

It may actually have helped the strikers' cause if their unions hadn't made sure an ineffectual fuckwit became Labour leader

I am sorry to jump in at the end, but I have read parts, but it is such a long thread to read every post. Could you tell me if, what I was told today was correct.
I know nothing about it really. other than ds1 was off school today.
One manager at work today, his wife was striking. He was not happy. He didn't think it would achieve much for his wife.
He said there were 2 issues:

1. that their % was about to rise. I think he said it was going up another 3%. he thought this was fair, because he too has a final salary pension at work, but if not enough is paid in, and INVESTED, it can never pay what people hope and end up as a vertual pyramid scheme. he said the teachers needed to realise, that whilst harsh most other employees were also in this position, and they must pay more. wake up . your naieve, he thinks.
2. this is the bit that he thought was madness. instead of what it was before,thye are now saying instead of being a final salary pension, based on your last 5 years, it goes across your who career. so say you worked for 25 years. started off on 25k and got promoted to 60k. you'd been on that for 5 years, so thats what your salary is based on. seems fair. but they are now saying they are going to BACKDATE LEGISLATION and you pension will be based on your average earnings over the whole time you have worked. Thus, the example before would be a lot worse off. because a person may have on 25k for 15 years, before being promoted to 35 for 10 years etc. BUT the point of this is, normally when they, any company, make changes, its from here on in. say, no more final pension, those that are in, stay in. new people have to join new pension scheme. fine.and in every businnes, a descison, a chnage is made, for future, going forward. when was the last time that a business, a government made such a huge decsion, a huge change and back-dated it ? we discussed that at work. Our contracts manager, management accountant and finance director. none of us could think of a comparable situation. That is mad. how are they getting away with that . you don't make changes and apply it ot 25 years ago.

I agree with you there thebest. I'm assuming you mean Ed 'Mealy mouthed' Milliband of course, I may be wrong there.

I agree he is a useless leader, I mean.

Mind you, none of the striking unions are affiliated or make donations to Labour. They aren't party political.

I do indeed mean Ed. Were none of the striking unions in any way connected with hoisting the useless bastard upon us helping Ed win the leadership contest?

The money to the Labour Party comes from the TUC (trades Union Congress), to who the unions pay to be affiliated. That's all unions in the UK, not just the ones on strike today.

I agree he is useless.

Niecie speaks sense. I completely agree.

YABU

The Hutton report shows that public sector pensions are forecast to cost less, not more. The present government is ideologically committed to destroying the public sector.

And their divide and rule tactics, judging by some of the posts on this thread, are working.

The money to the Labour Party comes from the TUC (trades Union Congress), to who the unions pay to be affiliated. That's all unions in the UK, not just the ones on strike today.

I'm not sure about that - I thought the NUT was the only one affiliated to the TUC, so not ATL or UCU.

Sorry, ignore me - have checked further, and you're right.

But if the NUT are affiliated and the TUC were behind the backing of Ed surely they bear responsibility????

Hmmm...only in the same was that lib dem voters voted for DC as PM (ie they didn't but that's what they got)

It's pretty clear you are not keen on unions thebest but they aren't actually party political - their aim is to support and get the best deal for their members. The TUC itself is an umbrella organisation for unions that campaign for a 'fair deal at work and social justice' (from their website). Not all, but most, unions in the UK belong to it.

I actually love Unions, or at least the principle behind them. My beef is with the people who often find themselves in the position of leading them. I'm unimpressed to say the least. I guess that's why I'm so angry...

Well, you are entitled to your opinion thebest, and actually I can understand. I feel angry too.