aibu to think that all those striking on thursday are being selfish and greedy?

[hellospoon]

And they should be thankful that they even have a job?

In a day where thousands of people are unemployed and living in poor conditions surely these teachers should be thankful they even have a job!

Many parents are having to take leave, some unpaid I presume the effect that it will have on family's is ridiculous.

joben - professionals don't get paid overtime, never have. If teachers are the professionals they claim, and they should be, they do the work that needs doing, however many hours it takes.

One of the Leading Articles in the Times today is so good I am going to stick it up on the staff room notice board at the school I work at (which had to close to children today as so many teachers were on strike).

I quote "The Public Sector strikes against the Governments proposed reform are not a bold demand for justice and equity. They are not in the public interest, or even about the public interest. They are simply a call for other people, no better off than them, to have smaller incomes, so that their members can have larger ones".

Says it all really. And I don't think teachers have a leg to stand on. Teachers bleat on about the Times being a Tory newspaper, but it is simply speaking a truth that some people refuse to accept!

Niecie - true. If my private sector DH claimed for his overtime, we'd be millionaires!

How small would you like to make our incomes, diabolo? Perhaps we should work for free so that you don't have to lose any of your salary at all?

Just looking for fairness really noblegiraffe, rather than preferential terms for the public sector (one of which I am!).

Rocky12, it isn't a job for life anymore. 2 teachers at my school are being made redundant this year. It is difficult to get a permanent job contract in some schools. Teachers are not living in some fluffy world insulated from what's happening to the rest of the country, despite what some people seem to think.

Where is this 'unpaid' time coming from? Are teachers now saying that they would like to be paid by the hour. Agree with Diabolo - professionals dont get paid overtime. If I claimed all the hours I worked I would be rich indeed.

Its this attitude of job for life, long holidays, paid overtime and a sense of entilement that is grating.

I've worked in both and could claim extra pay or toil if I worked after my contracted hours when working in the private sector. Many private sector employees can do this, but clearly not all, which is clearly not right either! Diablo, I think you're allowing the government 'divide and rule' agenda to affect you. As I've said, I think everyone deserves a decent pension, not just teachers! Rather than moaning at teachers defending their rights why don;t you fight for yours?

Diabolo, if you do a stressful job and work long hours, a job for which you need good qualifications and one which many people openly admit that they couldn't hack, and more importantly, one which is one of the most vital in the country (educating the next generation and keeping them out of their parents' hair so they can work) don't you deserve a bit of preferential treatment?

Striving - yes they are living in a fluffy world. I heard one teacher the other day saying that they didnt want to work over the age of 60 because they would feel tired and worn out. As another poster says - plan to do another role if you feel like that at 60. My BIL is a drayman, he is 51, his back is shot to pieces. He is not going to get anything else. Will have to rely on savings etc as he cannot access his pension yet. Why oh why do teachers think what they do is some how immune from real life.

Joben - you speak alot of sense.

Rocky 12, It's ashame about your BIL. Do you really want the same for everyone else or is it better to look for a solution for him.

A race to the bottom?

Isn't there state provision for those who cannot work through ill health?

Teachers can't plan to do another role after 60 as they will legally not be allowed to leave their job until they are 68 under new plans. Diablo, I feel for your BIL, but echo what Pang says 100%. Because he is forced to suffer such degrading lack of human rights, we should all suffer? Nothing will help you BIL except unified resistence to his predicament. Why do we accept so much shit?! Meanwhile the overpriveleged keep their perks. You may not want to accept this, but I think we're on the same side, no matter how much the media and the governmentt try to convince you otherwise

joben

Many in the private sector don't get paid overtime. Why should teachers?
My DH never got it and he was expected to stay at work until the job was finished. Only shop floor workers in the firms he worked for ever got paid overtime. Even clerical staff who in theory were entitled to overtime payments rarely got it.......So they were first out of the door at 5pm.

I do realise teachers have to prepare for lessons. Keep loads of pointless records etc.
But marking homework? All my year 9 sons maths hw is done online and marked automatically. The GCSE stuff as been past papers marked from a sheet provided by the teacher or marked in class.

Year 9s history and geography = one piece of written work per half term.

French....not much!

Science....varies some teachers lots. Some nothing

English... Year 9 son does it at school. I have seen very little marked work and nothing of any length. At GCSE teachers deserve a medal.

PE.

Music. They do loads of after school stuff and spend lunch time in the dept with DC.

So some teachers do mark work some don't.

Parents evenings, report writting etc are I'm sure a pita! My DH hated the travelling, being away from home with all that entailed......eating alone, being away in DC summer hols, and missing much of their childhood . Our teacher friends were envious. They really thought working away was a 'holiday' paid for by the firm with bottomless expenses!

Do you really want a tired, worn out teacher teacher teaching children? One who is bitter and fed up but who is stuck in the job because they need to wait til they're 68 to get a pension. Not all teachers will be like that, but some will. I've seen previously great teachers get to the stage where they just don't have the enthusiasm or energy they once had. At the moment, it is straightforward to retire. I would hate to see people like that teaching for another 8 years. Bad teachers cam have an awful impact on the children they teach.

No noblegiraffe - they don't deserve preferential treatment. They do a great job, I don't deny it, but who says they are more deserving than doctors and nurses, those in the military, coal miners, power station employees, police, fire men, farmers...... the list goes on. It is the sense of entitlement that is going to the teachers downfall because it will really, really piss off everybody else who thinks they do a great job too and don't see why teachers deserve more consideration than them.

We live in a society, all of us together, interdependent and all necessary in our own way, even the fat cats because it is those fat cats that run the companies that generate the profits that go to the major shareholders. And I take it you know how the largest shareholders are in a lot of companies? They are the pension funds, trying to generate enough income to fulfil all the obligations they have to support an ageing population. You see we all need each other. The 'them and us' mentality is very wearing.

joben - you are very lucky to be paid overtime in a professional job. I've not met anybody who, after qualification, who gets paid overtime but if you have, good luck to you.

I have posted on another thread about this and been flamed, so I'll post here

I don't think the teachers et al are being greedy but I think they are being very naive. Striking, in this context, will achieve nothing other than to undermine their negotiating position in the future. The Unions have led them into blind alley. There were other ways of negotiating this, but they listened to their Billy Big Bollox Union leaders who advised them to jump in feet first.

To all the sycophants people who've posted their support on the other thread. Will you be as supportive in a years time when the teachers have no choice (because of this early, stupid posturing) other than to keep striking and kids' educations start to become seriously affected?

thebestisyettocome - that was exactly the word I used in my first post - not selfish or greedy but naive. The whole strike was a waste of time.

Well, people get upset when workers strike, but just remember that if you have disgruntled and underpaid workers manning your airports or teaching your children, who knows what quality of work they will put in.........

but just remember that if you have disgruntled and underpaid workers manning your airports or teaching your children, who knows what quality of work they will put in.........

That's nice and caring eh, do as we want or else we won't educate your child ?

Niecie -" doctors and nurses, those in the military, coal miners, power station employees, police, fire men"

These are all public sector workers -working for the good of society in vital and sometimes dangerous jobs and should be compensated for that.

YABU and thick as two short planks!