aibu to think that all those striking on thursday are being selfish and greedy?

[hellospoon]

And they should be thankful that they even have a job?

In a day where thousands of people are unemployed and living in poor conditions surely these teachers should be thankful they even have a job!

Many parents are having to take leave, some unpaid I presume the effect that it will have on family's is ridiculous.

echt - it isn't the case that anybody wants the teachers to be shat on just because others are being shat on. What some of us want is for teachers not to expect those who have already been shat on to either feel sorry for teachers or to pay more to rescue their pension so that it meets their expectations. I will say again, surely you expect pensions to change to reflect the adjustment in risk factors and actuarial calculations? Or do you think of pensions as savings too? They aren't.

Orimian - that is the nature of contract work. It is the same for everybody on a contract - public or private sector - contract ends, the job ends. You are open to the ebbs and flows of the economy and cashflow. You know that when you sign up for it, you don't get redundancy, pensions or any other benefits. It has it is advantages as well but you make your choice.

MrsKravitz - I think you are wise but then I have no time for pensions anyway.

Nagynolonger - I agree with what you have said, and moving to the private sector for better pay often requires more training and lower pay for quite a while after the move. I would have thought in the long run it is may not be worth it for some in terms of career total earnings. Also I am not that old but when I was doing my A levels and looking at universities, you needed on 2 E's at A level to get to teacher training college - there will be a fair few teachers out there who got into teacher training college on that basis and aren't actually qualified for anything else. That isn't to say they aren't great teachers by the way, because being a great teacher is a whole lot more than having a good degree, especially in primary. Aptitude for teaching is far more important.

Yes I have friends who went into teacher training with only 2 A levels. But they are fantastic primary teachers. You would have always needed more for secondary teaching I assume.

As an ex public sector worker I feel they should 'Wake up and smell the coffee'. I have to pay into private pension as well as my work one in order to make sure I have a good pension and am not sitting waiting for the country to help me out - I'm not on a great wage before people start saying it alright for me, but I put aside to ensure not reliant totally on the state . There is not the money anymore. Its about making sure public sector pensions are reasonable and not the given that they used to be. I have been speaking to ex-collegues and most of them have NOT voted to strike but the unions are on a mission to cause strife with no concept of how this will effect a struggling economy.

niecie - I know! I was posting in response to this post:

"Teachers have no idea what instability is like or how stressful. I speak as someone in an unstable, unpredictable career .. " I was pointing out that a lot of new teachers are in the same boat. It isn't a job for life anymore - just like the private sector.

Yabu......teachers do an amazing job

Some teachers do an amazing job, some do a good enough job, some are not so good..........Just like any other job.

Apologies if I've missed this - reading from my phone.

Can anyone tell me what's happening with MPs pensions? The review last year said that they were forecast to become more expensive over time and I wondered if they formed part of this cost cutting.

For clarity they are final salary, contributory pensions (20% of salary contributed by exchequer). Accrued rate of 1/40th in some cases which excellent (1/50 & 1/60 also for some though).

Spousal pension is 5/8 of MP pension - also v generous and Death in Service lump sum of 3 months salary plus 4x annual pension.

Given an average MP salary of £65k we're not talking small numbers (though not posting my calcs in case they're horrendously wrong).

Are they leading by example? Scrapping final salary and increasing their contributions?

Oh and yes, YABU OP - teachers aren't the only ones striking so don't make them scapegoats. Public sector spans more than education though I appreciate your daily routine may be more inconvenienced by school closure than HMRC staff downing tools.

You don't like your pension forecast? Do something about it. I'll support you

Do what exactly dirgeinvegas? Come on, we're all ears.

No idea, its your pension not mine. Necessity is the mother of invention etc etc

Sorry Ormirian - I misunderstood. You are absolutely right, jobs aren't for life. Teachers do seem to have unrealistic expectations of teaching be a life long career but at the same time wondering how they will cope when they get to old to do the job properly. Their career for life mind set will have to change just like other people's have.

"You don't like your pension forecast? Do something about it."

Well, you could pay more in and work longer if you don't like your forecast but that doesn't seem to be a very popular idea with teachers. One things for sure, striking won't improve anybody's pension forecast.

no dirge, MPs are not leading by example. Their most generous pensions remain safe.

Mama that article alone should have the entire country backing all the strikers.....

The point about MP's pensions was raised at Prime Minister's Questions today.

From BBC website: "1231: Tory MP Claire Perry stands up suggests MPs should reform their own pensions so they can look public sector constituents in the face - Mr Cameron agrees. He says the increase in pension contributions will apply to MPs."

Yabu - and at least get your facts straight op- its not just teachers striking on 30th .
MN does seem to contain a lot of teacher- bashing threads. What is peoples problem?

Also, more facts about MP's pensions here (about half way down on right hand side)

Surely not mama! We're all in this together!

Yes ok, increase contributions,decrease their employer contributions to match rest of public sector, scrap final salary and have the work until 70. Is that what Cameron agreed?

A pension accrued on 1/40 with 40 yrs service amounts to a full final salary so £65k pension a year for an MP...nice

Not to mention the royalties from their memoires and the private sector consultancy work...

mam - just found this article here which has a lot of the actual facts and figures including a lovely quote;

Incidentally, in 2008 taxpayers paid £12m towards MPs? pensions, three times more than MPs themselves contributed

I hadn't realised it was that extreme. I don't understand how MPs are keeping straight faces as they attack striking workers who could never dream of a pension as huge as this.

Unbelievable

I've just read a very interesting article on the strike at the Inland Revenue which I think is happening tomorrow alongside the teachers' strike. It horrified me to read that although each revenue inspector actually SAVES the government around £658,000, this idiotic short termist government is cutting the number of them just to save salary (and of course pension) costs.

I think that alongside the idiocy of undervaluing and mistreating those who are entrusted with the nation's education, that's another example of the kind of idiocy we are facing from this government and the private-sector apologists who cannot see past their own petty jealousy and the need to force everyone else to race to the bottom with them.

There's a weird private-sector machismo going on. OOOO look I've got no pension AT ALL and I work a 70 HOUR WEEK for a BASTARD BOSS WHO MAKES MILLIONS OUT OF ME AND MY COLLEAGUES EVERY YEAR but do I complain?? Nooooo (you are complaining, btw)....

You make yourselves feel a little bit better about all this by hating on those who (frankly better qualified than you anyway) you believe to have somehow 'done better' than yourself.

And by the way- good teachers will indeed leave the profession and get better jobs. The worst ones will stay in it. (By the way, that's a very, very bad thing for the country, not something to crow about). Or possibly they'll be replaced by Polish and Indian skilled workers willing to work for less! Funny how right-wingers who generally can't stand immigration, always come down to favouring it in that sort of scenario.

I am a teacher who is striking tomorrow. A day's lost wages will be a hit on my income as a single parent and have told my DD that it will be a tight month. The illusion that I will get a good pension when I retire is absurd! At the moment I am looking at a pension of around 8K if I carry on in my current role. Considering my average working week is 55hrs+ that's hardly very good now is it? As far as the timing of the strike, as mymmytime points out had this been during GCSE's I would have serious thoughts about it. I love each and every one of my kids and am concerned about the effect of the strike on them, BUT I don't think it is fair that we as teachers have to bear the brunt of the cuts. What cuts are the politicitions taking? Teachers NEVER want to strike as each one of us cares deeply for the ecuation of the pupils in our care - but surely we are entitled to what we deserve?

The likes of mdowdall on here, mablig, think you are entitled to nothing really, because macho private sector workers like him haven't even bothered to arrange pensions for themselves and presumably intend to die at 67. I expect with the minimum of fuss and extended sickness, so as to avoid expense to the precious taxpayer.

We will not win over these idiots, but the vast mass of parents who do not arrogantly believe the teachers to be their 'servants' (thanks Xenia, but no thanks) entirelly understand that the government's breach of contract in an attempt to 'shrink the state' so that their mates don't have to pay tax, is repulsive.

Fgs people, the cost of teacher's pensions will be going DOWN next year by 0.5% of GDP. It is entirely affordable and petty jealousy and misguided arrogance about 'easy' teaching jobs do not change that fact one jot.

I think you are the unreasonable one, they are striking for good reason

MabliG; have you ever thought how much it would cost anybody else to build up a pension pot which woud give thema pension of £8k? For anybody on a salary equivalent to a teacher's it would be very difficult.